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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Southern Oregon
    Posts
    1,162

    Default Learning the Hard Way

    Wow, I just found out the hard way that a stock Ram 3500 flatbed requires a log book and DOT number even while running empty in CA. The number must be posted on the door because the the GVW is 12000 pounds. The inspector guy on the creeper stated that this was required even if the truck had a standard bed. This is hard to believe because as I cruise down the road most 3500's I see do not have a DOT number posted. I tried to work the not engaging in interstate commerce angle because I was hauling my own cargo, but that did not fly because I had bought my friend who was driving lunch in CA.

    We are averaging one ticket per trip from Oregon to central valley this year with the truck just pulling a forklift and no bees on board. They all have been paperwork or minor fix it tickets, but they always go through the litany of all they stuff they are doing me a favor for not by not writing me up. I suspect they actually could write the extra tickets if they would.


    I cant really believe I really believe we need a DOT number just to pull a forklift into CA with a such a small truck. We only leave our lovely state once a year briefly with bees to help make California nuts... wait a minute... they were nuts down there before I brought them any bees.

    There must be some exemptions for farmers or agriculture for people who do not actually drive for a living. This whole log book thing is a bit much for a small farmer driving a pick-up. By the way, they want to know what you were doing 2 days prior to your departure in your log book. Don't say anything work related or you will get dinged for being on duty too long even if it was not driving related; answering the phone or paperwork counts as on duty time.
    Last edited by JBJ; 02-20-2009 at 12:35 PM. Reason: clarification
    John B Jacob www.oldsolbees.com

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    OPP, Al USA
    Posts
    415

    Default

    California

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lakeland FL
    Posts
    848

    Default

    hey jbj i got ticketed last year for not having an annual inspection on my one ton dodge,
    But i just picked up a FMC safety regulations book from the truck stop, and on page 579 it states under the exemptions of log books: The driver who operates a property carrying commercial motor vehicle for which a CDL is NOT required.
    So if i interpret this right if i have a truck that i dont need a CDL to drive i do not need a log book.
    stupid laws,
    Nick

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Snowmass, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    2,496

    Default

    Comrade,

    Ze Socialist Republic of California doz dis zangs for ze good of en all ze people. Soon ve vill haf in place a system so dat ze only transportation vill be in Ugos. Try pulling your trailer in vun of zos.
    Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” John Wayne

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Owen, WI, USA
    Posts
    2,549

    Default

    It's not only California.
    John was shut down for 8 hours in MS years ago when he took his 1 ton down to pick up packages. He had a CDL but no log book. Since then he carries one and fills it out whenever he goes out of state. It is a pain and really ticks one off when you think of all those 40' RV drivers pulling trailers that can drive for 20 hours straight if they want to.....
    In California we take the back roads a lot and still worry about getting stopped by a CHP who should be spending his time actually trying to promote safe driving rather than harassing beekeepers. We made it out of state without being stopped but the day we left California we got stopped in Arizona. No reason, the HWY Patrol just saw what he thought was an easy mark. We had the DOT, insurance and log book up to date but he still kept us at the side of the road for 45 minutes lecturing because the log book wasn't filled out correctly, in his opinion. John forgot to dot an i or something.
    Sheri

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Boston, Georgia
    Posts
    466

    Default

    I am holding on to the hope I have inside... Kutless

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,194

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnK and Sheri View Post
    . It is a pain and really ticks one off when you think of all those 40' RV drivers pulling trailers that can drive for 20 hours straight if they want to....
    Sheri

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    964

    Thumbs Up Log Books.

    Sorry that you had difficulty, John.
    Let me give you another point of view in regards to log books.
    I have 3 trucks and they all have log books.
    They are never driven without proper entry in the log books.
    All legal-schmegal nonsense aside; I refer to these books frequently for all sorts iof info:
    -When did I pull bees out of CA over the last several years? Cherries, Meadowfoam, Madres. etc....
    -When was my last oil change? Tire rotation?
    -Another waterpump?!! Didn't I just replace that???
    -When did I drive down to ABC and buy XYZ???
    -How many miles did each truck log this year? (for tax purposes?)
    I have come to rely on my log books heavily for desicion making.
    I have exactly ONE hive more than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond question.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    770

    Default old idea I once had

    Originally Posted by JohnK and Sheri View Post
    . It is a pain and really ticks one off when you think of all those 40' RV drivers pulling trailers that can drive for 20 hours straight if they want to....

    I used to haul packages out of California, I often thought of buying an old greyhound bus,gutting out all the seats and using it to haul packages.......... never have to stop at any weight scales, but I think by law they must stop at all railway crossings...............everytime you pull into one of those chicken coops it usually ends up costing you money and you don't argue with the attendants.......... they carry guns

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Owen, WI, USA
    Posts
    2,549

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Jarrett View Post
    Oh yeah, I forgot, you are one of those driving the 40' RVs

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryVanderpool View Post
    Let me give you another point of view in regards to log books....
    I refer to these books frequently for all sorts of info:....
    I agree and look at them often enough as we go basically the same routes back and forth to California. I don't mind keeping the books, and they can be useful. What urks me is being harassed by 19 year old cops who throw their weight around over some silly technicality, just because they're bored and want a diversion.
    Sheri

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,194

    Big Grin

    Hey, you guys ought to try moving around twelve months a year in this state. You find me running old blue at night 90% of the time, the other 10% is on sundays when there at church.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Southern Oregon
    Posts
    1,162

    Default

    Thanks for the feedback guys. Here is the excerpt from the link posted by Dbest:

    Subpart A—General
    §391.2 General exemptions.

    (a) Farm custom operation. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who drives a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a person engaged in custom-harvesting operations, if the commercial motor vehicle is used to—

    (a)(1) Transport farm machinery, supplies, or both, to or from a farm for custom-harvesting operations on a farm; or

    (a)(2) Transport custom-harvested crops to storage or market.

    (b) Apiarian industries. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who is operating a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a beekeeper engaged in the seasonal transportation of bees.

    My question is what is the main part that this is "sub part A to"? I just got a copy of the dot rules today and it reads like a phone book. This sounds promising if it is iron clad, have you had an opportunity to share it with CHP yet?

    Swarm Trapper, I tried looking up the rule you referred to in the book I have and I recall a 100 mile rule associated with that if I am understanding correctly or even have the right rule book.
    John B Jacob www.oldsolbees.com

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Venango/Crawford Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,709

    Default

    I do Apportioned Registration for the State. I noticed two years ago, that even moving trucks they rent out have the US DOT numbers. Thought it was anything over 26000 lbs. But I guess that is just for the apportioned.
    "Where wisdom is called for, force is of little use."
    Herodotus (circa 485-425 BC), Greek Historian

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Boston, Georgia
    Posts
    466

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglerock View Post
    I do Apportioned Registration for the State. I noticed two years ago, that even moving trucks they rent out have the US DOT numbers. Thought it was anything over 26000 lbs. But I guess that is just for the apportioned.
    Unless your hauling other peoples things, for money, You do not need an apportioned plate. My tractor trailer is sitting in Fresno right now with: farm plates, DOT number, IFTA sticker, and NO log book anywhere in the cab. I do have a copy of the FMVSS book though.
    I am holding on to the hope I have inside... Kutless

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lakeland FL
    Posts
    848

    Default

    well JBJ im not a lawyer or even smart for that matter but it seems to me when i read that exemption that it is a stand alone exemption. in the list of exemptions there is one for the 150 mile radius but i believe that is referring to a vehicle that you need a CDL to drive. my book should not be out of date just bought it four days ago.

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alpha6 View Post
    Comrade,

    Ze Socialist Republic of California doz dis zangs for ze good of en all ze people. Soon ve vill haf in place a system so dat ze only transportation vill be in Ugos. Try pulling your trailer in vun of zos.
    Heil!
    Ve haf run into zee same ting un Nebraska. Ve got pult over at 2:30 in ze mornink and told zat ve needed DOT numbers.
    Und juz zis past November un friend got a $190 ticket for running ze scales und not hafing ze DOT number.
    Oh vell, zoon Obama vill make it zo ve cund all be unproductive und go on velfare.

  17. #17

    Default

    But, seriously, looking at the excerpt I read above I note one thing that I feel exempts us. We are NOT commercial trucks. We don't have commercial plates on our trucks and, according to our South Dakota laws, are not required to have commercial plates. But, as always, trying to argue with these guys is just beating your head against the wall.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Venango/Crawford Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,709

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by beekeeper_sd View Post
    Heil!
    Ve haf run into zee same ting un Nebraska. Ve got pult over at 2:30 in ze mornink and told zat ve needed DOT numbers.
    Und juz zis past November un friend got a $190 ticket for running ze scales und not hafing ze DOT number.
    Oh vell, zoon Obama vill make it zo ve cund all be unproductive und go on velfare.
    I took 4 years of german... your translation would be:

    Welfare!
    Ve haf run into zee same ting un Nebraska. Ve got picks over at 2:30 in ze mornink and told zat ve needed DOT numbers.
    And juz zis past November un friend got a 190 $ tick for running ze scales and hafing ze DOT number.
    Oh vell, zoon Obama vill make it zo ve cund all be unproductive and go on velfare.

    That was about it. Sorry dude...

    Also it could be:
    Heil! See Haf run into a Nebraska zee same ting. Ve got pult over at 2:30 in and told zat ze mornink needed sees DOT Numbers. Już Und zis past November a friend got a $ 190 ticket for running scale und not ze ze hafing DOT number. Oh old ville Obama make it zoon zo ve cund all be unproductive und velfare go on.
    "Where wisdom is called for, force is of little use."
    Herodotus (circa 485-425 BC), Greek Historian

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,304

    Default

    Vee are the Great State Of Kalifornia. Our Great Socialist Leader Herr RinoSchwarzenegger and the Party will soon own you all !

    Travel at night.
    Learn the 'scenic routes'
    "Your papers ,please"
    Last edited by loggermike; 02-21-2009 at 01:15 PM. Reason: no reason..

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Southern Oregon
    Posts
    1,162

    Default

    "...trying to argue with these guys is just beating your head against the wall." Beekeeper SD

    Well for once the thickness of my skull may be an asset!
    John B Jacob www.oldsolbees.com

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