division board feeders/nosema

[Beeslave]

I just have a few questions for you BIG GUYS on efficiency

Is it best to remove division board feeders( 1 1/2 story pollinator) when not in use( after almonds for wisconsin honey flows)? Plug it and leave it becuz it takes to much time and room to remove it(6 5/8 feeder)? Move 6 5/8 food super under deep during/after dandelion flow and honey supers above to force bees to remove honey from food super(below brood) and move up to supers to be removed for extraction? I could quiz for ever but my fingers can't keep up with my mind so I will leave this with one BIG final question.

FASTEST EASIEST WAY FOR SWARM CONTROL?

My plan last year kicked me in the *****! Swarms were swarming! Never seen any thing like it. I made 240 splits(3-5 frames brood and deep full of bees and cell) from 400 colonies in early may. My splits were swarming before the queens got mated and had capped brood. I had samples sent in and found I had a high nosema count(I fed fumigilan after tests in fall and will be feeding it again before they leave almonds). I think the nosema was causing supersedure confused during/and for swarming. The bees fight to over come the disease. They more than usual multiply(swarm)and produce excess virgins(supersede) to hopefully produce survivors(queens) that are resistant(aren't contaminated with nosema)to the nosema. A little out there in thought but does anybody have any comments?

[mikesattre]

1- did you make splits from several different hives?
2- were the queen cells verified to have hatched in any way?
3- why do you suppose that nosema caused the multiple swarms?
I feel like what you saw may have been caused by a bad period for mating flights, or possibly that the cells got chewed up and another queen was trying to be raised, possibly several?

[Beeslave]

Yes I mixed brood from different hives and the extra bees. I did have a batch of 100+ cells that didn't hatch( they were replaced at no cost) and recelled.
It wasn't just the splits. It was also the mother colonies( Not all of them) strong robust colonies dwindled to weak and some dead ( 100+). My mentor who has over 50 yrs experience( first hive 1954), Arizona bee lab professor, present WI state inspector and beekeeper was puzzled. Tested and Tested for varroa and hardly found a mite. It has been proven(read it somewhere) that when a queen is infected with nosema the colony will supercede her because she is sick(don't know if they know they are). They do this for survival just as they swarm to reproduce(survival and spreading the "herd"). 5 days after splits were made( no swarm cells with brood) there were 3 swarms in yard of 100 splits( Drone providers 1/2 mile away). That yard had 8 total swarms that I seen(I was there every 7-9 days) before the new queens could have possibly produced anegg that could have hatched into another queen

[Nick Noyes]

Sounds like virgin swarms.
I would try making my splits smaller. It is hard to get a cell to take in a booming deep full of bees.
Check your Nosema levels on the hives your nucing and treat before you make your splits if high levels are found.

[BEES4U]

Not even one queen emerged.
How long was it before you found out that the 100+ queen cells did not emerge?
Ernie

[JohnK and Sheri]

Beeslave,
I think you had a couple (few?) things going on to cause the problems.
Last year was one of the worst year for swarming we can remember. There was that extended period of cold and wet. The field bees had a chance to see all the brood and almond stores and thought they were rich. They had little else to do than figure how to make our life more interesting. This could account for the swarming in your parent hives, we had a ton of swarming too.
The dwindle and collapse sounds like Nosema C to me, (which may or may not have caused or been a factor in the swarming, hadn't heard that theory). We had a handle on the Nosema that we had seen the previous winter 07/08 and ours still swarmed a lot.
Concerning the splits, I agree that making the splits smaller might have helped. The larger the colony it seems the tougher to get a cell to take or a queen introduced. They could always be boosted later.
I am wondering about the timing of these splits. How long before the cell was put in were they split? In the ones where the cells failed, how long were they queenless before the failed cells were replaced? How long after the cells were put in did the swarming occur? Was there more swarming in the splits where that batch of cells failed or did it matter? You state that your splits were swarming before the queen got mated. They would be out and mating pretty quickly; to be prior to mating your swarms would have had to be within only a few days of the cell being put in.

Your first question was about the feeders. I can tell you what we do. We leave the feeders in the deeps permanently and keep the deep on top with the 1 1/2 colonies. We don't put feeders in the 6 5/8. With double deeps we have feeders in both boxes (at least that is the goal). We don't normally find time to reverse boxes but that helps with the swarming. Seems like we would rather go around and collect them off the bushes.
Sheri

[Beeslave]

Cells were again put in 14 days after the originals that failed to hatch. I didnt add fresh brood just installed new cells.

With the swarming of the splits, I went to install cells 3 days after the last batch of splits for that group of cells were made and there was already 3 swarms that were hanging there. I knew I was making the splits stronger than they should have been but I needed to use up the brood(swarm control that failed badly anyways) and I thought it was better to risk the cell and combine the ones that didnt take with those that did.

I have recently been reading up on Nosema ceranae and beeing my samples tested positive for nosema(the lab didn't test if it was apis or ceranae) that sounds like it was my major problem on top of the excessive swarming.

Still learning!!!!!!!

[JohnK and Sheri]

Cells were again put in 14 days after the originals that failed to hatch. I didnt add fresh brood just installed new cells.

OK, by that time (17 days from when you made the split, right?) this batch would have hatched the cells they started when you initially made the split and those virgins would be ready for mating; you could see virgin swarms then. Virgin swarms might pick up extra bees from the splits that had failed to requeen themselves.

With the swarming of the splits, I went to install cells 3 days after the last batch of splits for that group of cells were made and there was already 3 swarms that were hanging there.

Could you have transferred ripe cells from your parent colony that you missed? 3 aren't that many when you consider the number of splits you made.

I knew I was making the splits stronger than they should have been but I needed to use up the brood(swarm control that failed badly anyways) and I thought it was better to risk the cell and combine the ones that didnt take with those that did.

The parents might have swarmed worse if you hadn't cut them back so hard, so it can be a darned if you do, darned if you don't scenario.
Swarming is a big problem we are all trying to solve in a time effective manner. When you figure it out please let the rest of us know.

I agree Nosema C. sounds like part of the problem. Deal with that and at least you can cross that variable off the list.

Still learning!!!!!!!

Aren't we all?
Sheri