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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    hamilton city, new zealand
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    172

    Default Carniolan * Dark bee hybrids

    Has any one tried the carniolan * dark bee hybrids?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Azle Texas USA
    Posts
    369

    Default

    I would like to try a hive. Anyone know who would ship a package to DFW area?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Murfreesboro, TN, USA
    Posts
    575

    Default Nwc

    My wife claims that the New World Carniolans we got from Tim at Honey Run Apiary were some of the best bees we ever had. They were very gentle to work with and made lots of honey. We have mostly Italians, but again, the wife says try the NWC bees!
    "My child, eat honey, for it is good." (Proverbs 24:13)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Lincoln,Nebraska,USA
    Posts
    204

    Default

    NWC are great producers and seem to be very gental but watch them closely mine built up fast and tried to swarm. I caught them in time and split them but I know a few people that had multiple swarming problems and lost a lot of bees because they were not prepared. if your not prepared to have but a few hives split them into nucs and sell them. And there you have extra income every year plus honey to sell.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Azle Texas USA
    Posts
    369

    Default

    How can you prevent swarming?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Reno, NV USA
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    2,310

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaver Dam View Post
    How can you prevent swarming?
    This question was addressed IMO best in the late 19th century literature and then later by Snelgrove. I think the easy answer is there is no easy answer. It is a matter of finding a balance between having a powerful colony to collect a lot of honey and the risk of them swarming because they are a powerful colony. The most effective management techniques to 'prevent' swarming are labor intensive and disruptive to hives. People that are more skilled at this than I am have made compromises to find a balance they are willing to live with. I can completely prevent swarming now by applying some of Snelgrove's methods and if I had only a few colonies I might consider it fun. But to constantly move brood around is hard, hot work. I did apply Snelgrove's techniques on 50 colonies a few years ago and had no swarms and the honey yields were very high for my area. Being pretty slow with bees it took me the better part of a full time week to arrange the 50 colonies described in "Swarming - Its Control & Prevention". If I applied the methods each year I may have some swarming some years and not others but the numbers would be very much reduced.
    C.C. Miller said if he could only ask one question about bees it would be about swarm prevention.

    Good Luck.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Cooperstown,N.Y.
    Posts
    474

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by josethayil View Post
    Has any one tried the carniolan * dark bee hybrids?
    Hey there jose,
    How are these different from what is typically marketed as "Carniolan" ?


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    hamilton city, new zealand
    Posts
    172

    Default

    Carniolan*Dark bee Hybrid is a cross between the A.M.Carnica and A.M.Mellifera. Which gives you a hybrid bee.

    Normally marketed Carniolan are supposed to be Pure A.M.Carnica

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Enderby, BC, Canada
    Posts
    49

    Default Swarm prevention two easy must do

    Two important causes for swarming are: not enough space, worker bees bored, it is that simple.
    First: give lots of room in the spring once temperatures are above 15 degree C or 59F.
    Second: make them build! I introduce two frames with no wax exept a small strip on top and place them at the border to the brood nest between drawn comb (one each side). Or maybe you have foundation that needs to be drawn out. In any case they just love to do that and build it up. In about 40 days you have drone brood in those frames first mentioned and need to cut it out to control the varroa mite.
    If the hive still swarms then it was time to requeen anyways. In this case it is most likely that the queen is 3 years or older. Of course this is labour intensive but it works.

    Quote Originally Posted by HVH View Post
    This question was addressed IMO best in the late 19th century literature and then later by Snelgrove. I think the easy answer is there is no easy answer. It is a matter of finding a balance between having a powerful colony to collect a lot of honey and the risk of them swarming because they are a powerful colony. The most effective management techniques to 'prevent' swarming are labor intensive and disruptive to hives. People that are more skilled at this than I am have made compromises to find a balance they are willing to live with. I can completely prevent swarming now by applying some of Snelgrove's methods and if I had only a few colonies I might consider it fun. But to constantly move brood around is hard, hot work. I did apply Snelgrove's techniques on 50 colonies a few years ago and had no swarms and the honey yields were very high for my area. Being pretty slow with bees it took me the better part of a full time week to arrange the 50 colonies described in "Swarming - Its Control & Prevention". If I applied the methods each year I may have some swarming some years and not others but the numbers would be very much reduced.
    C.C. Miller said if he could only ask one question about bees it would be about swarm prevention.

    Good Luck.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Erin, NY /Florence SC
    Posts
    3,361

    Default

    We have run NWC in our stock for years and think they are superior bees in our climate.

    As far as swarming, placing an empty honey super below the bottom brood chamber will help greatly reduce overcrowding by giving field bees a place to cluster at night and reducing crowding in the brood nest. Less crowding + less swarming. If I can find the study on this I'll post the percentages that were found in the this configuration.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
    Posts
    9,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joel View Post
    As far as swarming, placing an empty honey super below the bottom brood chamber will help greatly reduce overcrowding by giving field bees a place to cluster at night and reducing crowding in the brood nest. Less crowding + less swarming. If I can find the study on this I'll post the percentages that were found in the this configuration.

    I like NWC's as well, but Russians have earned a place
    as well. No final verdict

    Joel, by empty you're saying no frames?? No crazy comb gets
    built in there? That would be with bottom entrance only I would
    guess.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Cooperstown,N.Y.
    Posts
    474

    Default

    Hi Jose,
    I am gonna go out on a limb here and say that I don't think there is any "pure" race.

    The Carni's I seem to be getting are dark, with not much grey fuzz...so then, are they true carni's? I would doubt it.
    And the old bee books talk about the mountain types as opposed to the plains type...
    I haven't seen/heard of anyone selling any Alpine Carniolans...

    Where are (who are) you thinking about getting some from?

    Mark

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
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    9,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mwjohnson View Post
    I am gonna go out on a limb here and say that I don't think there is any "pure" race.
    No limb here Mark, you are right on....

    Most every queen is open mated. If a queen supplier is
    using artificially inseminated (AI) mother queens and lucky
    enough to be isolated by miles from any other colonies,
    then thats about as "pure" as it can get.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    chilliwack, bc
    Posts
    640

    Default

    I've had Carni queens X with Italian drones and they were superb producers and quite gentle too. I've had italian queens crossed with carni drones and they quite plainly sucked and were the most miserable bees I ever had.

    We have mostly carniolans and what I find I like about them is their wintering ability, they store a lot of stores in late summer and use little through the winter and they also shut down brood production a lot sooner in the fall. Spring build up is fast and if your able to feed syrup and pollen patties the hives seem to explode with bees. Swarming is a problem when we're between honey flows or in prolonged periods of rain but it all depends on the weather for that year, we're either practicing swarm control one year or producing honey on another. They're also a good tempered bee.

    I had started a breeding program in 2005 using Glenn apairies russian X VSH queens, which them selves were a rather dark bee, and requeened all my hives with her duaghters. The following year, 2006, I reared queens from and the best of her duaghters. In 2007, I reared queens from Carniolan X VSH queens which also came from Glenn apiaries and they mated with the drones from the previous years queens. In 2008, I allowed the hives to rear their own queens as I was working a fulltime job and had little time and the year, weather wise, was a bad year. The bees I have now are very dark and have a lot of characteristics of the carniolans. I still treat for mites but having bees that are resistant to mites is just a part of the IPM for my bees.

    I' ve been thinking of getting a carniolan breeder queen at some point but I really like the bees I have now.
    Will Gruenwald Chilliwack BC

  15. #15
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    Sep 2004
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    Devils Lake, North Dakota
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    Default

    Chillard.......... do you winter indoors?? Or are you
    close enough to the ocean for milder winters?

  16. #16
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    Mar 2005
    Location
    Erin, NY /Florence SC
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    Default

    {Joel, by empty you're saying no frames??}

    Hi Bruce. I guess empty would mean no frames and that isn't what I meant. A honey super with combs or foundation! Good thing someones paying attention

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Devils Lake, North Dakota
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joel View Post
    Hi Bruce. I guess empty would mean no frames and that isn't what I meant. A honey super with combs or foundation!
    Thanks Joel......... I have a few hive still on bottom
    entrances....... I will try that. Easy enough.

    Can that be done on top entrance I wonder?? They'd
    still be hanging under the brood nest I'd think.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    chilliwack, bc
    Posts
    640

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sundance View Post
    Chillard.......... do you winter indoors?? Or are you
    close enough to the ocean for milder winters?
    I over winter outdoors. It's usually mild enough here in the Fraser Valley (we're about 70 miles from the ocean) but this year has been an exception, it's been colder and for a longer time but it's been drier too where as it's usually raining from October to May.

    Many beeks wrap there hives here with the insolating black poly filled tarps, not so much for the coldness but to keep the rain out. I've been using tyvek building wrap but as soon as i can afford those tarps, I'll use those instead. It's been my observation in other beeks hives who use the tarps that the hives are a month ahead of tarpless hives.
    Will Gruenwald Chilliwack BC

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