Starving singles in 2009 Almonds

[Honey-4-All]

When the border got closed to US packages alot of guys here took a huge hit on their gross as the almonds weren't priced that high. If I remember right the price was probably was in the $25-30 range when it happened. Right now I think most of us who sell packages can pretty well get rid of everything we can produce at a fair price. If the border opened up next week for bees going both ways I don't think that it would do us beeks in California any good on the margins. Right now I think wee'd be on the losing end of the deal as the price in the almonds would probably go down more than the price of packages would go up. Anything we would gain by opening up the Canadian market to packages would be a wash at the best. If some one in California disagrees with this I'd love to hear their rational.

[Missoura]

Honey-4-all,

The biggest boon for the California package producer was being able to raise package prices when you saw the industry would pay the higher price for the Aussie package. The next year you raised your prices.

the second biggest boon was the find of small hive beetle in Florida . At first beekeepers bought into the idea paying an extra 25-35 a package to get SHB free packages was worth the cost. Now that most California packages contain a few SHB (California package producers best kept secret) many Midwest commercial beekeepers are returning to buying packages from the south.

MABee
Many beekeepers from the Midwest which have been to almonds and returned to the Midwest brought back SHB in their operations. Many of those beekeepers hives had never been in an area known to contain SHB other than California.

This was Years before the Aussie SHB find was found.

[Tom G. Laury]

What is bad is NOT!

IT'S GOOD!!! WOW!

[Honey-4-All]

Well Missoura,

All the package prices here are set by one thing. Market demand (and costs). Some guys dump thousands of them at $40 a pop and others sell individual ones at $100.

If you can get them cheaper in the south go for it. The cost of business in Cali is higher and if the dems in the legislature get their way with the Arnold and a few Republicans in the near future you will certainly not see any prices dropping from anybody here.

As for the shb. We didn't invent them here. Someone else brought them in.

Two weeks ago there was a load of bees here from NY parked about 2 miles from me. The bees are spread all over now in the Almonds. They've been here three or four years and the beek who owns them treats for SHB I've heard. As to why I don't know unless they do have shb. Fortunately I haven't seen them in any of our hives here yet yet. I don't think they will survive our soil and climate. I may be wrong. We shake bees at a lot of other operations within a 70 mile radius in exchange for queens and straight out purchase and I've never seen one in any of the hives yet. Only in the alcohol jar at Mann Lake in Woodland. If you got beetles in packages it was likely from someone south as the soil is more conducive to their replication although I do find it unussual that the word has not gotten out that "so and so" has a big beetle problem in California. Maybe I missed it. I talk with customers all over the country; Practically every state expect Hawaii and the stories I hear about the beetles from people in the south aren't even specs on the radar in Cali.

If can't say I'm sorry for those poor souls who showed up for the almonds and got the "Clap" of SHB while doing the dance.(If they actually did) No one forced one of them to show up to the party we been tending to for a long time. I bet you a large lunch at the driveup window that it was it
an out of stater who brought the "SHB-CLAP-SHB" here in the first place. Can anyone say Florida or Georgia?"

[beemandan]

As for the shb. We didn't invent them here. Someone else brought them in.

The weren't invented here either.

an out of stater who brought the "SHB-CLAP-SHB" here in the first place. Can anyone say Florida or Georgia?"

Do you believe that if California closed its borders to bees from everywhere....even other states...that the various bee plagues wouldn't ever reach you? How do you think shb found their way to the South? They came from Africa. We don't allow the importation of bees from Africa. Who do you suppose 'brought them in'?

What is it about the soil in California that you think isn't conducive to shb replication?

Dream on, friend.

[Honey-4-All]

Hi Bee man dan,

You are correct. You did not invent them. I'm sorry they (SHB) got to you in the first place. My point to Missoura was that we didn't drag them in here first. Maybe I shouldn't have included Georgia in my comment although I can remeber bees coming here from your state before the guys to the south of you were showing up for the dance. Seems like al the STD'S for bees get discovered in Florida first. Minimally thats where I remeber they show up on the radar screen. Correct me if I'm wrong. Some selfish SO* sneeks in queens and/ or something else by whatever means and drags the garbage (BEE STD'S) in with them. Then we all have to deal with this garbage. Trust me I'm not happy they are here either. By you or here by me. It does none of us any good although Keith might disagree with me.

My theory on why the shb MIGHT NOT thrive here is twofold.

First. our soil has tons of clay in it. Not conducive to their geting in the ground. Our soil is like rocks in the summer and so slippery you can't drive on it after less than 5 hundreths of rain without sliding everywhere. Seems like they like sandy soil ( the kind in Modesto and much of the southeast US)

Secondly. Our humidity is relatively low except in the winter if the rain shows up. Almost all of our honey runs in the 13/ 14 % range while at times I've had it in the high 10"s. Lots of pounds per barrel when its that dense. Also seems they (SHB) like high humidity which isn't here either.

Let me know if you think about the theory.

h4all

[Tom G. Laury]

4 years ago I found a tennis ball sized cluster of beetle larvae in a deadout. Also saw some on drip pallets holding honey. Drenched with Gardstar around buildings and haven't seen them again. Don't the beetles require moist soil?

No secrets here regarding SHB, the valley counties conducted a survey that year and found them in some stored comb in buildings. As far as I can see though they are not here on a year round basis.

[beemandan]

Seems like al the STD'S for bees get discovered in Florida first.

I was thinkin' that varroa were first identified in Minnesota...or somewhere up that way. AHB from Mexico into Tx and Az. Tracheal mites...who knows? IAPV....nosema ceranae? Those may even have come in over in your neighborhood. I think it'd be hard to point a finger at any single place as the source of our pestilence.

First. our soil has tons of clay in it.

They seem to do pretty well in red GA clay.

Secondly. Our humidity is relatively low except in the winter if the rain shows up. Also seems they (SHB) like high humidity which isn't here either.

Humidity has possibilities.
Another possibility is that they haven't got their proper gentic foothold yet....once the clay tolerant, low humidity happy shb start to reproduce you'll catch up with the rest of us.
For your sake I hope not.

[Bizzybee]

North Georgia is more red clay than anything else. What isn't clay is solid granite. South Georgia is clay and sand for the most part. Like you say, when summer comes around the clay is as hard as a brick. And we see no significant rain other than thunderstorms until winter. If our weather pattern ever returns we will get our missing rain from the hurricanes in the fall.

The beetles for the most part are all over the eastern states and seem to be progressing west. Those that say they don't have them either haven't seen them or I suspect they soon will. There has been plenty of speculation as to what these things need to survive. Sand soil is supposed to be the ticket, yet one yard I have to the southeast that has plenty of it shows fewer than my yards to the north in the clay. It has been said that they fall from the hives and reproduce and the cycle can be broken by treating the ground around the hives. Yet again I have another yard that sits on solid granite and unless they have little jackhammers in their pockets, they aren't going in the ground there and still it is by far one of my worst yards for them.

They always die off in the winter here and plenty can be seen dead around the hives around the first freeze and before the birds and whatever picks them up for food. There are almost always a few that will winter over in the clusters but get run out of the hives in the spring when build up starts. I won't see more than a spotted sampling of them anywhere until April or May and no significant numbers until June. From then on, they seem to hold their own living in the wings of the hives. If a hive fails for some reason, they are there ready to pounce. But I have never had the experience of them taking over a healthy hive. I have more problems from wax moths than I do beetles late in the season. If anything, the beetles follow behind the moths if any of them are successful at weakening a hive.

Dan, I'm going to come over there and check out that evil scientist bee lab of yours just to make sure you didn't have something to do with all this mess

[beemandan]

Dan, I'm going to come over there and check out that evil scientist bee lab of yours just to make sure you didn't have something to do with all this mess

Ya know, the first real problems I had with shb was the year that Jamie Ellis at the beelab was running experiments with the monsters. He was growing them by the millions in one of the back rooms. I accused him of infesting my hives and he said he thought it was mine infesting his. So, if you go poking around the beelab there's no telling what you'll find or what you might take home.

[Honey-4-All]

Its wet, and more is on the way. Next ten days forecast look to be rain or showers every day. The bees have had less than ten hours forage time on 70% bloom trees so far. So much for the build up. Better fill that bucket up again folks.

[gingerivers]

We've got them in NC, I have them in my hives. And we've got clay soil. I think they were in the first hive I purchased, but they are in swarm hives i caught also. They get in the soil and go from there I guess. Strong hives seem to keep them under control, they do well in weak ones.

[tecumseh]

beemandan (who evidently hangs with mad scientist types?) writes:
AHB from Mexico into Tx and Az.

tecumseh:
I seem to recall that the first positive identification of AHB was in California.

as to the shb. just casually (no mad scientist algorithm or such) it does appear the shb is less of a problem the further you go into west texas where the humitity is also extremely low. I would also expect that the variation in temperature from southern to northern california should somewhat to highly impact the shb problem. it is of course easier to assume you have no shb problem if you don't look.

it would also seem that some here are quite in DENIAL that the amount of money folks would pay for their packages until the Aussie packages opened there own eyes in this regards.

distilled to a nut shell: I suspect the aussie package deal is short term in nature and not sustainable (economically) over the intermediate term. It's one benefit is it does seem to provide a mechanism for folks that have committed to pollination contracts and then find winner losses which make it impossible to fulfill those contracts. Thus the aussie packages have quite likely saved a ton of money that would have been spent on lawyers and legal proceedings.

[BEES4U]

Bee Invasion?
Africanized bees proliferate because they are less discriminating in their choice of nests than native bees, utilizing a variety of natural and man-made objects , including hollow trees, walls, porches, sheds, attics, utility boxes, garbage containers and abandoned vehicles. They also tend to swarm more often than other honey bees.

The first swarm of Africanized bees was detected in the U.S. in October, 1990 when they were captured in a baited trap at the border town of Hidalgo, Texas. AHB colonies were first reported in Arizona and New Mexico in 1993 and in California in October, 1994. Within a year, more than 8,000 square miles of Imperial, Riverside and northeastern San Diego counties were declared officially colonized by Africanized Bees.

To date, more than 100 counties in Texas, 6 in New Mexico, 14 in Arizona, 1 in Nevada, and 3 counties in California have reported Africanized honey bees. AHB continue the northward expansion of their territories by swarming, the process by which bee colonies replicate.

In May of 1991, Jesus Diaz became the first person to be attacked by AHB in the U.S. while mowing a lawn in the border city of Brownsville, Texas. Diaz suffered 18 stings and was treated at a local hospital.

On July 15, 1993, 82-year-old Lino Lopez became the first person to die in the U.S. from Africanized honey bee stings. He was stung more than 40 times while trying to remove a colony from a wall in an abandoned building on his ranch near Harlingen, Texas.
Ernie

[beemandan]

tecumseh:
I seem to recall that the first positive identification of AHB was in California.

The first swarm of Africanized bees was detected in the U.S. in October, 1990 when they were captured in a baited trap at the border town of Hidalgo, Texas. .

Whichever, doesn’t matter to me. My only point in my original post was that it’d be hard to blame Florida for all of our imported pestilence.

beemandan (who evidently hangs with mad scientist types?) .

Naw…no hangin’. I’m only acquainted with a few of them.

[Honey-4-All]

Hey folk just thought Id give you an update on the "starvin Singles." The weather the last two days has been better for the bees. Mid sixties yesterday. Bit breezy. Petals falling on the earlier blooms on trees across the road from me. The guy spraying fungicide on our almonds had to fly to the north side of the field and let er drift down on in. It was breezy enough were he dropped under the power lines to get it on. Speaking of "NUTS."
We worked on / went thru the breeder queens yesterday in anticipation of grafting next week and you could see the almond pollen starting to come in. Not as super abundant as in years past. Didn't see much nectar coming in nor did I smell them drying it which should have been the case considering the temperature. Today looks to be high sixties with clouds and then a forecast of 8 days of rain / showers at 40 - 80 % chance at 59-64 degrees. They should get some nectar in today unless the clouds keep it down. The bees have been building but definetely not gaining weight without feed. So far my warning about starving single is on hold (don't buy or sell) but with the building bees and the rain coming back we still might need the syrup bucket back in hand especially on singles.

[JohnK and Sheri]

Thanks, Honey-4-All, for the update. You had me pretty worried for a while there as we had a few that weren't quite as heavy as we'd like, but they are in story and a half so hopefully they have enough to hold them with the nectar that is coming in.
I talked to our broker the other day, Chowchilla area. He was in the orchard, said the sun was shining, bloom was at 60-70%, our bees were flying like fools and he could smell the nectar drying. He sure made me want to head out that way as we were due to get another 6" of snow overnight here in Wisconsin.
I asked him how they looked weight wise. He had hefted a few and said we didn't need to worry, but it isn't the majority I am concerned with. We always have the syrup ready and waiting for them here in Wisconsin if it is needed. Last couple years they have been too heavy if anything coming out but this year might be different, with all the rain.
Overall our broker was happy and when the broker is happy, we are happy.
Sheri

[suttonbeeman]

John k and sherri'

Just courious who is your broker? My bees are also in Chowchilla and I'm wondering if we have same broker. Let me know if you hear anything weather/rain wise! i sometimes have a hard time getting a quick responce back about bloom. I also am wondering how much weight the bees went thru from Feb 10 to 20 with all the rain. How did yours do? I had 4-7 frames brood so I expect they used some stores and graded about a 10-11 frame ave. Looks like orange is about 3 weeks away as I talked to David Hackenberg today so hopefully I'll get back to Fl in time as trees in my bees orchard opened their first blooms on jan 12. Keep me posted! Also let me know where you are in WI. I'm taking about 600 to the Redgranite area. small world! Rick

[Missoura]

reports are coming in of light hives in California almonds. Most Midwest beekeepers feel too little time to come feed so will take the losses. A week of rain will cause some loss.
A couple reports of beekeepers which have went to feed as the broker said the hives were ok and the beekeepers wanted to check. Both found some hives starving but most ok but fear the next week will cause losses of hives.
Both said feed most likely will be needed before shipping if hives are returned to cold areas of the Midwest.
Each beekeepers situation is different but the general thought is that the hives are generally light as compared to this time last year.

[suttonbeeman]

OOPS>>>> almond bloom in my orchard didnt open Jan 12.....but Feb 12 must have been a after 50 moment!