Package bees not doing well?

[Bizykatbird]

We have 11 hives. 2 of which were established hives, 2 from swarms, 3 from splits, and 4 from new packages. All 11 made it through the winter, however, the established hives, splits, and swarms are thriving, while the 4 packages we got are struggling. On all 4 of the packaged bee hives, there is a small amount of bees, and the cluster is in the corner of the box instead of the center. There is a small amount of brood and larvae.They all have plenty of honey. Is this normal for the 1st overwintering of packaged bees? Why would the packaged bees be the only hives affected? All 4 came from a place in Georgia. Does anyone have any suggestions what we should do to help them out? Should we move a frame of honey closer to the cluster, should we feed pollen patties? Should we combine hives? How soon should we recheck them? Should we leave them alone? Has anyone else had this experience with packaged bees?

[beedeetee]

Are the package bees carniolin or russian while the others are Italian? If so, what you are seeing is normal.

[beemandan]

Whatever you do, don't overreact. All four, from the same source, doing the same thing. They have some stores and brood. This may be their natural cluster size. Some bee races, most noteable Russians, are said to overwinter with frighteningly small clusters. If the supplier is reputable, it isn't likely that you got all four duds.
I wouldn't give them pollen patties. I'd be more inclined to allow them to grow naturally based on the locally available pollen and number of nurse bees to manage the brood. I'd allow them to build up based on those resources...without interference. If you feed them they may not have a big enough population to consume the food before it spoils or becomes food for parasites.
Many of my bee colonies don't make their winter nests in the center of the hive. I usually leave them to their own devices until they've built up in spring and then rearrange the nest to suit myself....although even then it probably isn't important.
My best advice is to watch them closely.

[Bizykatbird]

The package bees are supose to be Italian. Not sure of the others, we got our 1st 2 hives from a beekeeper. However, looking at them I would guess they are a mixture of Italian and Carnoilan.

[Michael Palmer]

On all 4 of the packaged bee hives, there is a small amount of bees, and the cluster is in the corner of the box instead of the center. There is a small amount of brood and larvae

Why would the packaged bees be the only hives affected?

Does anyone have any suggestions what we should do to help them out?

Has anyone else had this experience with packaged bees?

I'm not a real fan of packaged bees. They have too many inherent problems. Unfortunately, that's about all that's available. I would say the queens are inferior. Look at your other colonies. You say thriving. Why are the packages not thriving, too. Sure, I suppose it could be some stock like Russian that just builds up slowly. I doubt it. Since when do packages from Georgia have Russian queens? And, even if they are, so what. They obviously aren't performing well for you, or you wouldn't be asking.

So, how to save them. Are they too far gone already? How small a cluster of bees? Handfull? Grapefruit size? 2 or 3 frames half covered?

You could unite them. That doesn't always work well with weak colonies in the spring. What they really need in an infusion of young bees. Uniting really weak ones can be thought of like this... "Old bees plus old bees equals old bees."

You could add combs with a bit of brood (emerging) and bees to each...not full frames of brood. Keep all the brood in contact. When that hatches, add some more. At some point, when it's obvious that the colonies will make it, you should requeen.

[alpha6]

"You could add combs with a bit of brood (emerging) and bees to each...not full frames of brood. Keep all the brood in contact. When that hatches, add some more. At some point, when it's obvious that the colonies will make it, you should requeen."

This is what I would try and do to build up those hives. Don't take too much from the others though.

Also, It cannot hurt to feed. I would be giving them a 1:1 to help to stimulate the queens laying (if your spring is there) and it also can't hurt to thrown on a pollen pattie. They may not have enough bees to forge properly and having feed and pattie in place will help them build faster without leaving the hive.

[beemandan]

I wouldn't give them pollen patties.

it also can't hurt to thrown on a pollen pattie.

Ahhhhh!!! Diversity?
I can't speak for alpha6's neighborhood but in mine a pollen pattie that isn't consumed in a week will attract shb and be infested with their larvae in less than 10 days.

Michael Palmer’s not a fan of packages and the queens that come along with them. My experience is more ‘so so’. Mine’ve been good for the most part. Not necessarily wonderful but good. The ‘reputable’ package suppliers have been in business for decades. They depend on their reputation. At the risk of repeating myself…..I can’t imagine that you’d get four duds from a reputable package producer. They were a reputable package supplier weren’t they?
Again....good luck

[tecumseh]

busy cat bird writes:
We have 11 hives. 2 of which were established hives, 2 from swarms, 3 from splits, and 4 from new packages.

tecumseh:
perhaps a bit of additional information would be useful.

are all the hives the same age?
were all 11 threated exactly the same in terms of pest/disease treatments and feeding?
do you feed or supplement in anyway?
most specifically when did you acquire the packages? ie how much younger are the package units from the swarms and splits?

ps... what is the typical ambient temperature at your location at this time of year?

[Michael Palmer]

Michael Palmer’s not a fan of packages and the queens that come along with them. My experience is more ‘so so’.

I would expect that GA packages would do better for you, Dan. They have GA queens raised, as you say, for generations in Georgia.

But, if you ship them up north, all sorts of things happen. Chalk, Tracheal, supercedure, drone layers, failure to winter. From a survey done by Cape Cod beekeepers using various GA package producers, more than 65% failed.

For you beekeepers in the South, the GA packages are probably ok, or so, so, as Dan says. Those GA queens are probably OK too, for you. Heck, they're probably just what you need. After all, they're bred to grow large colonies to produce packaged bees in GA. Take them up to MA or VT, and see the results. Night and day.

Does that sound reasonable? Seriously, I'm not trying to bash GA package producers. And I agree Dan. The Hard-Wil-Ross families have been doing this for generations. I just wish, since they send so many thousands of packages up our way, that they'd select for queens that would thrive in our northern climate. The only way we've found to insure a good % make it through the winter in a productive condition, is to requeen with local stock in mid-summer.

[Bizykatbird]

The clusters are about grapefruit size.
As far as the age of the bees...all 4 packages were put in the hives April 2008.
The 2 established hives, I am not sure since we got them from another beekeeper, but we got the 1st one in spring 2007, and the other in spring 2006.
The hives from swarms, were last years swarms, 2008 May or June. And the splits we made were also in the spring/summer of 2008.
We are in Salisbury, NC. The temperatures here have been ranging for probably 30-70 the last couple of weeks.

[beemandan]

I would expect that GA packages would do better for you, Dan. They have GA queens raised, as you say, for generations in Georgia.

I agree with your statements Michael. As the original poster is in NC, I figure GA queens would be OK there.

As far as GA queen producers selecting for cold weather bees....I don't see how they can do it. Regional queen producers are surely a better choice. On the other hand it'd be hard to produce packages for late March delivery in a northern yard. A catch-22.

Maybe one day some inspired package producer will work out a deal with a northern queen supplier to get selected breeder queens and graft from those for packages that are shipping north........then, you just have to work out the drones......I dunno.....its bigger than me.