overwintering in NY with migratory covers?

[justgojumpit]

I've been building a good bit of new equipment for my apiary as well as others, and I figured I would ask around to see if any beekeepers in northern climates were overwintering their bees in migratory covers. I would probably end up putting an inner cover under the migratory cover so I can put some sugar in there, but it would not have the telescoping sides. Has anyone tried this? I figured before I built a whole bunch of covers, I should see if this would not be detrimental to overwintering rates first!

justgojumpit

[jeff123fish]

I have seen folks do it with nucs but not with full hives yet. thats not to say it wouldn't work just I haven't seen it.

[Jeffzhear]

I tried it and it didn't work for me. Way too many moisture issues. I set up the hives with an inner cover with vent notch, a 4 inch sleeve above the inner cover with newspaper and insulation and then the migratory cover....I quickly moved back to telescoping covers before I had a real problem. The telescoping covers really keep moisture out of my hives. Now, for the record, I am in an area that gets much rain and much snow, more than other areas of the state.

[alpha6]

5 1/2 of snow on the ground and they are doing fine with migratory covers...just make sure it covers the whole top and no gaps for snow or water to get in.

[mwjohnson]

Jumpit
I'm in the northern edge of the Catskills, before it drops off into the Hudson.

I use an inner cover with a 3/8" X 1 & 1/2" or so notch in the lower side.
Then a piece of 3/4" or 1/2" CDX plywood, that overhangs about 2" all around, get's propped up about 1/4 to 3/8" on both front corners, with whatevers handy (like a couple twigs, or some ripped scraps of wood) for the cover.
A scrap of butyl pond liner droops down over the plywood.
Need to use 4 bricks, one per corner.

Not pretty. Price is right.

I notice when it's real cold that whole crack above the inner cover is frosted shut, and that seems good.

I keep thinking I'm gonna build some telescoping covers because eveyone say's you need them, but I think a nice sheltered location is way more important than the kind of top you have.

I get ribbed a lot from my friends....

But the bees looked good last week...

10% winterkill last year.

[mwjohnson]

Re read your post, so I'd like to add this.
My inner covers have a thicker top edge...or rim...about a 1/2"...to put sugar on if you think you must.
I really made them that way so I could turn them over to make a little more room for introducing a caged queen or for pollen patties or so the gallon pickle jar will fit.

Mark

[justgojumpit]

Thanks for the replies,

I figured the sides of the telescoping cover really didn't matter that well, as long as the hive was protected from snow and rain. I mainly put the sugar on the inner cover to take up moisture... my bees have rarely touched it because they always had enough honey stored. I just mix it with water in the spring for stimulative feeding.

justgojumpit

[Joel]

We have done it both ways over the years. Your losses with migratory covers will be notably higher that with an inner cover and and telescoping lid. We do winter our southbound bees until the end of Dec./Beginning of Jan in the north with Migratory lids but anything that's staying gets switched.

[justgojumpit]

Joel, I was planning on an inner cover AND a migratory cover, not just a migratory cover. I'm just wondering as to the importance of the trim on the telescoping covers.

justgojumpit

[uncletom]

I've never tried the migratory covers, but it would seem too me that if you were wrapping your hives for winter that they would be ok.

How many of you fellow new yorkers here do wrap your hives? Some times I do, sometimes I dont. My losses dont seem to be a wrap no wrap issue.

I like the idea of the oversized plywood, might try that this summer.

[JudyHainaut]

Last year was my first season as a beekeeper and I have two hives. One of the hives seems to have died from nosema. The are brown splotches on the outside of the hive and much more on the inside and the bees are all dead. It was the stronger of the two hives in the fall so it's puzzling. The bees from the other hive were out in the sun today and seemed healthy. My question is - is it ok to harvest the honey from the dead hive in the spring for my own use? I've stopped up the entrances to it so other bees can't enter and contract nosema as well.
Judy

[justgojumpit]

I haven't wrapped my hives much in the past, but this year I did put some rigid styrofoam insulation around the hives. I will see how the bees do with this. One year I wrapped the bees too tight and had losses due to moisture buildup, so my goal in wrapping this year was not to control the temperature of the hives, but rather to decrease the rate of temperature change during cold snaps, allowing the bees to reform into the single cluster rather than being stuck in small separate clusters because the temperature in the hive decreased too quickly.

justgojumpit

[mwjohnson]

Hi Judy,
Sorry about your bees. Dead-outs kind'a go along with beekeeping. Good you had two.

Yeah, you "might" be able to harvest it for your use... it'll most likely be granulated...so you "might" not be able to extract it, but it won't hurt you, if that's your question.

I just remove the frames and knock off most of the bees, never mind any that are stuck in their cells, and then take a couple minutes to scrape off the propolis, burr comb and the worst off the feces off.
Then I put a wedge of hardware cloth in the entrance and a piece over the inner cover hole to keep out any mice, while allowing some air through the hive until I can get it restocked.
If the frames are REALLY smeared with excrement I would likely remove them, and not return them until the new colony was well established.
Good luck

[mwjohnson]

Thought this was about covers?
I wrap my freestanding, double deep nucs, mostly.
I do wrap one yard that isn't quite as well protected as my others...
Mark

[Michael Bush]

If you have a least a small notch for moisture to get out you probably won't have too many problems with condensation. If you top that off with a piece of styrofoam on top of the lid under the brick (or stone) you'll do even better.

[justgojumpit]

Thanks for the input! I hadn't thought about putting styrofoam over the top cover, but it does make sense.

justgojumpit

[swamprat]

justgojumpit wear in NY do you live.I live in westmoreland in oneida co.

dwayne.S

[justgojumpit]

I live in North Salem, NY (about an hour north of NYC right up against the CT border) You live about 3 1/2 hours from me. I know for a fact that my winters are more mild than yours... I spent a few winters in Ithaca and Ovid, so I know that part of the state well enough!

justgojumpit

[Joel]

I think the advantage to the Full hive cover in winter in NY is the prevention of additional heat loss and wind damage to the bees coming in around the edges. Migratories ultimately get built up with propolis where they meet the hive (inner cover will as well) and as we break them loose ( I check mine monthly even in winter) we create open space between the top of the hive body and the super. If you have a small crack or gap in any of your doors/windows at home, hold a match next to it on a windy winter day.

Strong hives will do fine with migratory covers in the winter. I snowshoed to a friends yard one January and the lid (telescoping) had blown off and was laying in the snow. We found the lid and it was full of leaves which meant it must have blown off in the fall. It was -9F, the bees had been rained on and snowed on for likely 2 months and to our suprise they were just fine.

With small cluster bees, like carni's or border line hives, I think every bit of insulation without comprimising ventilation is that little better chance of making it through until spring. If you do go with Migratories, don't use the tongue and groove commercial ones but make your own from plywood. Water gets in the grooves, freezes and will cause them to leak which the bees really don't need.

[justgojumpit]

I was planning on making the tongue and groove ones, and then painting them. I assumed the paint would seal the cracks between the boards. Am I false in this assumption?

justgojumpit