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  1. #1

    Default hfcs vs liquid sucrose vs invert liquid sucrose

    O.K.

    What is the difference? I have access to all three and the price is close. I know hfcs and invert sugar has long shelf life. The price on the liquid sucrose is a little cheaper. this is food plant reject because of color.

  2. #2
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    can you have it tested for quality?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  3. #3

    Default they have a lab on site

    What would I be looking for? I can ask for a sample but I am hoping if the price is write to feed sucrose in the spring and hfcs in the fall

  4. #4
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    The guys here at our extentions office will test our surip, if needed, and they are looking for the HMF level, otherwise the acidity level int he surip. Higher acid level, worse the surip. I forget what HMF stands for
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  5. #5
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    Rainesridge:

    Ian is right. Look for HMF- Hydroxymethylfurfurals. I suspect levels in your sucurose will be high. Hmf increase as the temperature increases in either honey or syrup. If the colour is off in the sucrose it was possibly overheated, therefore it is darker. I don't know enough about the process to understand to explain what else could cause the off colour. I guess there is some sort of a bleaching process to get white sugar crystals as opposed to brown sugar.

    HMF's are indigestible to bees I think, so it's deadly to bees if it is in their winter stores. In the spring it's not so bad as the bees can fly and void themselves.

    Jean-Marc

  6. #6
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    Default

    This topic has been covered quite extensively lately and lots of deatil can be found here: http://www.beesource.com/forums/sear...archid=1372538

  7. #7

    Default found a site

    thanks for the information

    I found this site to get a start

    http://www.wildwoodlabs.com/viewer.php?article_id=52

  8. #8
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    $.20 gallon, are you sure? That's less than 2 cents a pound delivered. Hard to believe, and almost to good to be true. I mean I pay about a penny a pound for delivery and I'm about 1 hour and 15 minutes away from the sugar plant and 10 minutes from the tanker truck yard. This a based on a full load. If it's not toxic grab it and don't hesitate before someone else does. I mean I've stored syrup over the summer, don't know if the increase of HMF's as Ian points out is harming my bees. I don't think so, but I have never measured.

    Jean-Marc

  9. #9
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    >>don't know if the increase of HMF's as Ian points out is harming my bees.

    To find out, you'd have to test your syrup.
    I was at a entomological symposium in Winnipeg a couple of winters ago, and one of the honeybee topics was geared around feeding syrups to bees as a supplement to their diet. They talked mostly about sucrose and HFCS. One important point I left with , was how easily HFCS can degrade over time especially with higher temperatures.
    It was mentioned syrup left over from spring, here in the prairies anyway, is better dumped in the bush than into your hives for winter feed,
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  10. #10
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    The seriousness of the problem depends on time of year and what other food is available. If there is lots of other food, then the effect is diluted and also, bees live a shorter time when flows are on, HMF or no HMF, but add in some nosema, and you can just imagine the poor bees' stomaches!

    The effect is worst when bees are confined and limited in resources.

    Moreover, HMF goes up over time in honey and old honey can have high HMF, too. Heating honey raises HMF as well.

    Time and temperature. Plus the nature of the original mix.

  11. #11
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    >>The seriousness of the problem depends on time of year and what other food is available

    Reason being why they were a little more relaxed in advising spring time feeding of old syrup rather than fall feeding of old syrup
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  12. #12

    Default pricing

    Sorry I missed typed that. It is $.20/lb not a gallon. Just want to make sure as hfcs is now $.24/lb delivered. on a full load that is a savings of $2000. But I would rather feed sucrose in the spring and hfcs in the fall. But if they use enzymes to invert the sucrose instead of acid and heat it may be stable for the summer. That is if I can keep it cool from what I hear you telling me?

  13. #13
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    From the bees point of view you want to feed sucrose in the fall and HFCS in the spring. You don't want to feed a bad batch of HFCS in the fall, too hard on the bees. Some of the oldtimers in Canada told me this years ago. If you get a bad batch in the spring the bees can sort of recover from it.

    Jean-Marc

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