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Mcp??

16K views 56 replies 17 participants last post by  Flyer Jim 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
The State is broke and I have been noticing more CHP side of the road inspections going on.
Anyway,I got flagged at the I-5 scales and written up for no MCP(motor carrier permit).I have driven the same truck (77 F350 10000 GVW))through these scales for years without ever being stopped. The way I read the law is 10,001 lbs and up GVW is the dividing line for the commercial truck, OR any truck used to haul OTHER peoples property for compensation. The CHP dude claimed ANY truck used for profit of ANY type had to have the MCP. Am I wrong on this?
Will be on the phone Monday to try to get clarification.
Because the increased insurance cost would be more than the truck is worth,I will just non -op it (a tank of gas is worth more than the truck).
I like the small flatbeds because so many of my yards are too tight for anything bigger.
Any thoughts or comments appreciated.:applause::applause:
 
#2 ·
Most of the scales I encounter are 10,000 lb or better. Drive by empty and you'll get chased down, if they aren't too busy. And ALL 10,000 lb GVW vehicles are supposed to have a state or federal DOT number. I believe it's a HLS thing.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Thanks Mark.Maybe I shouldn't ask:) ,but what is an HLS thing?
The Ca. DMV website says:
--
Who needs a permit?

* Any person or entity who is paid to transport property in their motor vehicle regardless of vehicle size or weight (For-hire carrier).
* Any person or entity operating a motor vehicle with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 10,001 pounds or more and which is used in the course of business to transport their own property (Private carrier).
--
I figure I am a private carrier hauling my own property.
Oh, and I didn't mean I blew past the scales, just not pulled aside as I drove through.
 
#4 ·
Thanks Mark.Maybe I shouldn't ask:) ,but what is an HLS thing?
The Ca. DMV website says:
--
Who needs a permit?

* Any person or entity who is paid to transport property in their motor vehicle regardless of vehicle size or weight (For-hire carrier).
* Any person or entity operating a motor vehicle with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 10,001 pounds or more and which is used in the course of business to transport their own property (Private carrier).
--
I figure I am a private carrier hauling my own property.
10,001 huh? Clearly some legislator wanted to cut the 10,000 lb gross guys a break. Good on him.

HLS = Homeland Security. Maybe I should have abbreviated it HS instead, which is probably more accurate.

So help me God.
 
#6 ·
Mcp

Hey Mike as you probably already know the main requirement for an MCP is an insurance policy with a combined single limit liability of $750,000. Get it through your Farm Bureau it's not all that expensive. Then the permit is $35 annually plus I think $35 each time you add a vehicle. Buy the decals and you'll look official!
 
#7 ·
I went to the CHP in San Andreas and talked to the commercial guy about MCP. (this was two years ago) He said anything 10,000 lbs and under did not need a permit. My '78 GMC is 10,000 lbs. Most of the old 1 ton flatbeds or 3/4 ton flatbeds don't have dot numbers. Let us know, by the way Monday's a holiday for some.
Jim
 
#8 ·
Thanks for the info. A few years back the local CHP guy(retired now) told me it was 10,001 to fall into that category. But I get the feeling there is a new interpretation of the law or something.
I was thinking about retiring both these old trucks after almonds, but with things getting kind of shaky might just hold off a bit longer.
 
#40 ·
I think that you might be taking a bit of a leap to say that what you describe is "intense policing of beekeeper", but I wasn't there. Regulations for the transportation of skidsteer loaders aplly to all haulers, not just beekeepers.

Unsecured load tickets hel[p keep the rest of us safe from folks who don't adequately tie down their payload or equipment. The same is true about lights, turn signals and such.
 
#10 ·
From the Calf. dept of Motor vehices

Who needs a permit?

* Any person or entity who is paid to transport property in their motor vehicle regardless of vehicle size or weight (For-hire carrier).
* Any person or entity operating a motor vehicle with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 10,001 pounds or more and which is used in the course of business to transport their own property (Private carrier).

Back to Top of Page
Who will not need a permit?

* Vehicles operated by household goods and/or passenger carriers as defined in Section 5109 of the Public Utilities Code (those vehicles operate under Public Utilities Commission authority)
* Vehicles operated by household goods carriers to transport used office, store, and institutional furniture and fixtures when operated under a household goods carrier permit issued pursuant to Section 5137 of the PUC.
* Pickup trucks with a GVWR of less than 11,500 pounds, an unladen weight of less 8,001 pounds, and equipped with a box-type bed not exceeding 9 feet in length, when operated in a non-commercial manner.
* Utility trailers, camp trailers, or trailer coaches.
* Vehicles providing transportation of passengers only, a passenger stage corporation transporting baggage and express upon a passenger vehicles incidental to the transportation of passengers.
* Vehicles used only for personal use and are 10,000 pounds GVWR or less.
* Two-axle daily rental trucks with a GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds when operated in non-commercial use.
* Vehicles which are exempt from vehicle registration fees.

More info here - http://dmv.ca.gov/vehindustry/mcp/mcpfaq.htm#whodoes
 
#11 ·
Ca #'s

If you are required to have CA #'s on your truck you will have to have a motor vehicle permit, They kind of go hand in hand. They are a pain in the a@@ the first time because nobody seems to know what to do about them. Jim said he talked to chp in san andreas they don't know anything you have to go to sac. It is (for me $35 a year) after the first time it is easy they send you a bill. some times flatbeds don't go by gvw's
good luck.
Jack
 
#14 ·
nobody seems to know what to do about them. Jim said he talked to chp in san andreas they don't know anything you have to go to sac. Jack
Well Jack,Sacramento isn't that sharp either.

Long time ago I drove my truck to the chp is sac, parked it in there chp parking lot, locked the door went inside and reported it stolen.

It took them two weeks to figure out the stolen truck was in there parking lot.:)

Man those were the good times. lol
 
#15 ·
Chp

Keith,
You are right when it comes to commercial most all CHP are lost. Kind of make it up as they go. But when it comes to MVCP you have to go to Sac.at least from here. From Modesto you would have to go thru Fresno. You can just call and they will sent you the paper work. DMV forms but you have to get them from CHP or something like that.
Jack
 
#16 ·
Keith ,I saw that thread. I have been thinking along those lines myself, but trailers would be a bad fit in some of the places I go.But I'm not ruling that out.
Had a friend who hauled Christmas trees to the Bay area years ago with a diesel F350 pickup and gooseneck trailer. Said it was the way to go.
 
#34 ·
Just like when you get pulled over without DUE CAUSE!!!
The "DUE CAUSE" for getting pulled over in a truck is just that, because you are drving a truck. Any vehicle with a USDOT number can get pulled over at any time, on any road, with no probable cause.

As far as confusion with what is a commercial vehicle AND/OR second division vehicle and what numbers are needed, the problem usually lies with the state's vehicle code AND the Commercial Motor Carrier Safety Inspection Act(MCS). Most states have their own laws that govern second division vehicles. The Commercial Motor Carrier Safety Act (USDOT) governs commercial vehicles. The Federal Act and the state's complied statututes can have different meanings and different weight limitations, causing both overlapping regulations and loopholes.

Troopers are ressponsible for conducting Level III MCS inspectors. This means they are capable of doing paperwork inspections, walk arounds, and weights. Level I inspectors are the guys in the coveralls they are going to get under the truck on a creeper and measure brakes. The Level I Troopers are the ones that you would want to talk to if you are wanting to sort out what you need and don't need in your state. The Level III inspectors just simply don't deal with trucks on a day to day basis.

On a side note from another comment posted:
The Illinois State Police has been accused of writing more tickets because of the economic situation to try and get more income for the state. What most people don't know is that the ISP doesn't receive a penny from any citation that their troopers write. All the money goes to the city, township, county, and courts.

Jake
 
#21 ·
Right Tom,
Ive learned to keep my opinions to myself when dealing with the law.There are phone numbers on the paperwork for me to call to take care of it. I guess I just don't like getting sucked into the System any more than necessary, being kind of an independent person.
Jim,I hope you win this one!
 
#23 ·
I got my CA# and put in the glove box. Never displayed it. Blew the scale at Wheeler Ridge regularly and only got stopped once. Told Chippy, I was confused. When going down the Ridge, I am not a TRUCK. Don't need to use right lane and run 35MPH, sooo I must not be a truck that needs to pull in to the scale with a 350 flat bed. He let me go and said pull in IF they wern't busy. Fuzzy laws, arn't they great.
 
#24 ·
A CHP guy on another forum said this law was being enforced more than in the past.
The first fine here is $157 (got the ticket to prove it). I think he said its a $1000 the next time if not in compliance .
So you get the ID # and MCP. Now you have BIT and EMP compliance to worry about.
I am just about ready to say F CA. and their moronic laws.
 
#26 ·
Don't be in too big a hurry to feed anyone yet ,Jim.
I got the CHP application for the ID number.The definition of a commercial truck is right on there:
--
any truck not already included in categories A through M which has a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds and which is used to transport property privately (not for hire). Operators of these vehicles are subject to the Motor Carrier of Property (MCP) permit program administered by the DMV.
--
No other definitions apply to my operation.I'm thinking the guys at the scales are trolling for dollars.I think they had their thumb on the scales too!:eek:
 
#27 ·
"I'm thinking the guys at the scales are trolling for dollars.I think they had their thumb on the scales too!" dont live in cali but that sounds like what we are seeing here in ky. when gas got real high, the scales provided nearly free income if definitions and rules were stretched. if you dont like it, take time off to go to court(several times) and fight it.one will never find the smoking gun- a memo saying we need more tickets-but the cops can tell from the attitude at the post what is expected.
 
#29 ·
jumping the cottonwood scale

T'was back in 1971 , and we had just loaded our 700 pkges in Live Oak calif.(good bees they were too )We were aheaded for home and being a young inexperienced driver kinda held in awe by the beauty and overpopulated state,busy interstate highway..... I missed the scale stop. CHP came outta the scale lights aflashing,siren agoing and pulled us over.
Trooper was kinda cautious approaching the red one ton chevy,as hitch-hikers(loose bees) proceeded to pour out.He wrote us a ticket .We told him we wouldn't be in Calf. for much more than a couple more hours but he insisted we stop up futher, spend the nite and pay our fine before leaving the state.........never did get that dang fine paid.....guess I'm still a wanted man in calf.

Me,mom and dad made it home in good shape.....fond memories of the good old days, when holidays and bussiness were always combined and all things seemed much easier to do
 
#30 ·
Ah, the Cottonwood scales. The southbound scale is just a shack and used to hardly ever be open. But the northbound is open 24/7 and is a major operation. If you blow by the scales they will come swarming outta there like hornets, if they aren't too busy.
Too bad packages cannot be sent up like in the old days. Yes , things were easier back then, before the mites screwed up everything.
 
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