And One Day... They're Gone!

[walking bird]

Well, after trying to rescue my hive from a heavy mite load using a thyme, lemongrass, and sugar water spray... they packed up and left.

Don't know if it was the fact that they got a little good weather and wanted away from the mites, or whether the spray made them unhappy enough to leave.

But today there are just a handful of bees wandering around in there, which I suspect are dying... and a few others showing interest in the hive, which I figure are robbers.

So, the question:

I've got a deep + medium hive full of comb, some random capped brood (very little), some capped honey, lots of nectar and some pollen.

How much cleanup do I do? Obviously the capped brood has to go, but what about the rest? Any advice?

[brooksbeefarm]

If you don't suspect disease,I would freeze it or store it in bags with para mouth crystals.The frames with brood (if the comb isn't dark) I would scrape the caps off the dead brood and put in a strong hive this spring.They will clean it up.Jack

[walking bird]

You mention, "if the comb isn't dark." But it is. All the brood comb is dark; in fact, the cappings have been dark brown for quite some time. Something I should be concerned about?

[cow pollinater]

Check the remaing bees closely, I'll bet the queen is still there.
CCD is characterized by a mysteriuos dissapearance of adult bees leaving a handfull of bees and maybe a little patch of brood with whatever stores they had. It seems to take a while for the affected hive to be robbed.

[walking bird]

I checked, CP. No queen. No dead bees on the sbb. Just a whole lotta empty, and a straggler here and there that may or may not be part of the original crew.

[brooksbeefarm]

Sorry I can't help you on this one. I had the same problem with two of my strong hives.Jack

[cow pollinater]

I lost my two strongest in one yard about two weeks apart with the same symptoms but both of them still had the queen. I spoke to a commercial guy who lost forty percent to the exact same symptoms last year.
Now you can brag to your buddies about the horrors of CCD ravaging our nations bees with first hand knowledge...Doesn't sound like much fun but it's all you've got left.

[Ian]

>>CCD is characterized by a mysteriuos dissapearance of adult bees leaving a handfull of bees and maybe a little patch of brood with whatever stores they had


Sounds like Varroa to me,
From what I gather, the most typical CCD characterization is the disapearance of most all the adult bees, leaving "lots" of brood.
If these bees left with little brood, they probably dwindled due to sickness of some kind, v mites, t mites, nosema c perhaps,

[odfrank]

Well, after trying to rescue my hive from a heavy mite load using a thyme, lemongrass, and sugar water spray... they packed up and left.

I don't blame your bees for packing up and leaving after you treat you're bees with hippy holistic cures like that.
What do any of those substances have to do with mite control?

[walking bird]

well, Odfrank, it was a recipe recommended by Alpha 6.

And isn't thymol the primary ingredient in one of the miticides? Apiguard, maybe? I'm not sure. Thymol is just an extract from thyme.

At any rate, this is all a follow-up to previous posts I made about the mite problem I had, so I'm sure the evacuation was predicated on mite issues. I'm just not sure if the cure was perhaps worse than the disease. Alpha6 seems to have had good luck with this solution.

[Cyndi]

I don't blame your bees for packing up and leaving after you treat you're bees with hippy holistic cures like that.
What do any of those substances have to do with mite control?

Actually....that would of happened with any kind of mite treatment...especially if you did it in the dead of winter where the weather is unpredictable and bees are at their most vulnerable time of the year.

I suspect someone used an incorrect dosage of the lemongrass, thymol and what was the other thing??? I mean geez, that's some heavy duty stuff. Essential Oils are very powerful!! Let me repeat that...EO's are one of the best methods for beekeeping maintenance, but they have to be treated with care! More so since there's a lack of information on the correct amounts to be used, etc. when you compare it to miteaway and all the other "conventional' methods. A little goes a long way and if the bees aren't returning..BINGO...someone used entirely way too much and pretty much murdered their own bees. Unfortunately, this is how we learn. Care to share how much you used, etc.? It would be an interesting discussion.

P.S. I personally like the idea of using EO's....and I want to learn sooo much more about this, because I think this is one of the keys to good beekeeping management. EO's are derived from plants and flowers, if we can find a medicine or a cure for mites using it and experimenting, I think it's worth trying and exploring. I'd like to try it out on the HUGE Japenese Hornets this summer, Does anyone know if there has been any documented experiments using EO's in Beehives?

[Roland]

did you notice a peculiar odor in the hive? Spotty brood?

Roland

[walking bird]

Cyndi: the mix, according to Alpha6's recipe, was a teaspoon of Thyme, teaspoon of lemongrass, 4 cups water, 4 cups sugar. Perhaps i did something incorrectly, because I suspect you may be right, it may have ticked them off.

On the other hand... I also noticed some fighting going on a couple weeks ago. I have a feeling the hive numbers were low, and robbers stressed them to the breaking point where they finally said, "Y'know, mites, smelly sprays, and now muggers? We're outta here!"

And Roland- No, no smell. I pulled all the frames today, and tomorrow I'm gonna open some of the remaining capped brood to see what it looks like.

Well... it's an education.

[tecumseh]

I think one of the measure I will slowly work into my routine walking bird is an ascetic acid wash after a hive absconds or dies.

of course walking bird the alternative explanation is that the hive in question was quickly slippling away and likely nothing you could have done would have salvaged the situation. which was pretty much my conclusion several weeks back when you were trying to determine is thymol and thyme were the same or different products.

I do like cyndi take on the question of using essential oils as remedies. I don't really use essential oils myself.. but her warning sounds to be well reasoned and reasonable.

[wildbranch2007]

> tecumseh I think one of the measure I will slowly work into my routine walking bird is an ascetic acid wash after a hive absconds or dies. <

I'm looking at doing the same, do you know how much acid/ at what concentrate per deep hive. I read it some where, wrote it down and probably threw it in the trash.

thanks mike

[tecumseh]

no I don't know the specifics wildbranch. it would be a good question to first search for and then ask direct if you get no hits.

I do know that you begin with a very concentrated solution of ascetic acid and then dip or spray frames. I did read a short article which suggest that it was a good remedy (for old eqipment and not live bees) for chalkbrood and nosema (a type I presume since the reference was fairly dated).

[Roland]

No odor? Great - therefore no recommendations for pathogens.

Roland

[Cyndi]

Cyndi: the mix, according to Alpha6's recipe, was a teaspoon of Thyme, teaspoon of lemongrass, 4 cups water, 4 cups sugar. Perhaps i did something incorrectly, because I suspect you may be right, it may have ticked them off.

A teaspoon is ALOT!! If I were going to experiment using EO's on my hives, I would start with really small amounts. In this case I would of stayed in the range of 10-20 drops of each EO to the 4 cup ratio of water and sugar. Best if you mix it in small batches and blend it in a blender too to get everything mingled together.

I know about the recipes that are out there that some beekeepers are using. I personally do not like the amounts they are using and cringe everytime I think I'm going to do it and pull out their recipes. I use EO's for many different things. Like I said before, a little goes a long way. IMO, it would be more effective for the bees if we weren't blasting them with high dosages of this stuff.

For the record...I have spearmint all over my property. When it bolts in the fall, all the bees go for it. Having this discussion makes me want to go plant more Thyme and Lemongrass and let it bolt so the bees can benefit...naturally without me having to measure,

[Sundance]

You mention, "if the comb isn't dark." But it is. All the brood comb is dark; in fact, the cappings have been dark brown for quite some time. Something I should be concerned about?

Sorry about the loss......... I would cull out the dark comb
at this time. Time for fresh. Or maybe take the HoneySuper
Cell route.

[tecumseh]

cyndi writes:
Best if you mix it in small batches and blend it in a blender too to get everything mingled together.

tecumseh:
not a small detail if you are doing home remedies.