Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    11,907

    Default Diseases & pests

    Different "treatment" paths to consider, pro/con. IPM strategies.
    What should a first year beekeeper concern themselves with?
    How to decided whether to treat or stay treatment free.
    Last edited by Barry; 03-04-2014 at 03:05 PM.
    Regards, Barry

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    100

    Default

    That is the way I do it;
    Get some bees in the oil as the top of the oil tray is not very tight against the bottom of the screened bottom board. (also get ants, yellow jackets and anything the bees drop thru the screen)

    The oil gets pretty nasty if I leave it too long between changes. It definitely controls the SHB;
    JG

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Wurtland, KY.
    Posts
    50

    Default

    http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/pest&disease/pppdIndex.html

    A good site to identify some of the pest and disease that your bees have

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Birmingham, West Midlands, UK
    Posts
    751

    Default

    We don't have SHB here, but if varroa drop a couple of inches or more below the screen, they can't get back and die miserably.
    RSBrenchley@aol.com
    Birmingham UK

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lake county, Indiana 46408-4109
    Posts
    3,505

    Default Re: i) Diseases & pests

    Docking

    I have used a screen bottom board with a pan of mineral oil under a SHB infested (queenless hive) and it cleaned up so I later added a queenright nuc on top and the hive is looking verry good now, after I pull honey I intend to have all my hives on the new SBBs
    Ed, KA9CTT profanity is IGNORANCE made audible
    you can`t fix stupid not even with duct tape

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    11,907

    Default Re: i) Diseases & pests

    From Andrew Dewey in another thread:

    How does one impart to new beekeepers – specifically those taking a Beekeeping 101 type class – that thinking Beekeepers take time to consider Pest/Parasite loads before deciding on a method of dealing with the pest/parasite?

    Please don't have this thread become a treatment/treatment free argument.

    What I'm after instead is a methodology that very inexperienced beekeepers can successfully adopt to follow an IPM strategy.

    For those not familiar with IPM (Integrated Pest Management,) the concept is in very rough terms 1) identify the pest/parasite/disease that is present, 2) determine a threshold of injury that you can live with, 3) develop an understanding of the life cycle of the pest/parasite/disease so that steps can be taken (cultural or chemical) to reduce their impact, once the economic threshold is passed.

    Beekeepers have a bit of an advantage in that Varroa and Nosema are predictable problems and tend to be annual in occurrence.

    I'm trying to avoid saying “you'd best treat for Varroa in August to help ensure that you have lots of healthy parasite free winter bees.”

    Many of the new beekeepers I work with are not interested in testing or making detailed observations, nor are they necessarily starting with bees that have any genetic ability to coexist with the pests/parasites/diseases in question.

    Please keep in mind that we are talking about people new to beekeeping and that simple often oversimplified answers are what are remembered.

    I'm tempted, and I caught myself a bit in class last night, to talk about beekeeping requiring a thorough understanding of both colony and individual bee life cycles, so that when confronted with a pest/parasite/disease there is an understanding of the impact to the colony.

    A thorough understanding of colony/bee life cycles is beyond what can be taught in the limited time of a Beekeeping 101 class, especially when students are worried about 1) sourcing bees, and 2) are they going to get stung when they install their bees?

    Do you say “Welcome to the adventure and by the way there are intermediate and advanced classes on all these topics offered by our state Association and EAS.”

    As an instructor I want my students to succeed in beekeeping, to keep their bees alive through the winter, making some surplus honey along the way.

    I don't want to say “3/4 of you will find yourselves with dead hives next spring.”

    Thoughts?
    Regards, Barry

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canterbry, UK
    Posts
    2,277

    Default Re: k) Diseases & pests

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Different "treatment" paths to consider, pro/con. IPM strategies.
    What should a first year beekeeper concern themselves with?
    How to decided whether to treat or stay treatment free.
    I think this should provide a starting point to that question:

    "QUEENS FOR PENNIES

    Randy Oliver

    American Bee Journal, March 2014, 273-277

    Page 273 only

    I've been encouraged in recent years by the number of beekeepers who appear to be successfully keeping locally-adapted stocks of bees without treatment for varroa. I am a strong supporter of their efforts, and see them as the wave of the future.

    Unfortunately there is also great deal of confusion as to what 'treatment free' beekeeping really means.

    Allow me to use an analogy to explain:

    Dairymen prefer to keep Holstein cattle. Holsteins are thin-skinned. thoroughly domesticated cattle selected solely for milk production. Their normal care requires shelter, supplemental feeding, routine vaccinations, and treatment with antibiotics. If a dairyman turned his Holsteins out on the range to fend for themselves without care, and half of them died each year he would be accused of having committed animal neglect -- the failure to provide the basic care required for an animal to thrive.

    Yet this is exactly what thousands of recreational beekeepers do every year. Under the misconception that they are practicing [sic] 'treatment free' beekeeping, they are in actuality simply neglecting their domesticated animals. The reason for this is that they are starting with commercial package bees -- bees akin to Holstein cattle, in that they are bred for high brood and honey production under standard management practices (notably mite management, but also supplemental feeding or antibiotic treatment if indicated). Most commercial bee stocks should be considered as domesticated animals. There is absolutely no reason to expect that your wishful thinking will miraculously transform your newly-purchased 'domesticated' bees into hardy survivor stock able to survive as wild animals without standard care and treatment."

    Mike (UK)
    Last edited by Barry; 03-05-2014 at 03:07 PM.
    The race isn't always to the swift, nor the fight to the strong, but that's the way to bet

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    11,907

    Default Re: k) Diseases & pests

    From Michael Bush in another thread:

    "Those who insist beekeepers have to treat have driven off more people than you know. I have gotten, not just hundreds, but thousands of emails from people who wanted to keep bees, went to classes where all they talked about where all the antiboitics and chemicals and they were ready to give up the entire idea until they found there were people keeping bees without treaments. I wonder how many thousands did not find out there was an alternative and just gave up before they started."
    Regards, Barry

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Laurel Hill, Fl
    Posts
    946

    Default Re: k) Diseases & pests

    I'm in my second year, had lots of SHB, went to IPM boards with oil trays. I rarely see a SHB now. I read a study that it reduces mites by 14%, but it won't save your hive from mites. Not enough fall off, even with dusting. but they sure work on SHB. Ditto the nasty oil if you leave it on too long. I love that it also kills roaches and ants. A new beek can easily do this. It's probably too expensive for a lot of hives.
    Robbin NW Florida(8A) / 14 hives /10 Nucs/ 4th Year / T {OAV}

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    11,907

    Default Re: k) Diseases & pests

    Andrew Dewey wrote:

    "success for me is new beekeepers overwintering bees and making a honey crop in their second year. I would prefer they not treat by the calendar as I don't think treatments are sustainable long term and I have grave concerns regarding ag chemicals in general. I do not have great confidence that the current crop of hard chemicals will be effective 5 years from now, and I want nothing to do with the year they are found not to be effective. Not so much this year but in the past I have had students announce to me that they were going to be TF - perhaps I am trying to honor their intentions too much.

    You raise a very valid point - what is success and how do we get new beekeepers to be successful. Maybe my crunchiness is showing in my old age. I am not inclined to prophylactic treatments but I've been around long enough to know potential consequences and to have decided on options. AFB=fire as an example."
    Regards, Barry

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    WaKeeney, KS, USA
    Posts
    87

    Default Re: k) Diseases & pests

    I have learned that there is unique patience required to do this. Just as with all things worthwhile.

    Its so easy to just say "I am going to be treatment free". Because thats the lazyiest way we can do it. And I am the best at being lazy!

    Initial shock of 3000 crawling, stinging bugs and just trying to figure out how they do what they do. They are Amazing! I have swiped bits and pieces of honeycomb from my bees and harvested just enough so my wife can have fresh honey for her morning coffee for almost a year now. Total out of my 2 hives my first year is 3 quarts on the shelf now and a wife that has no expectation of me stopping.

    I didnt start treating OAV until November from package starts in April. DWV and zombie bees were crawling all over the bee yard. My heaviest hit hive dwindled to near death over the coldest part of winter but made it. I use thru the bottom board feed jars and when the bees are done with the syrup they just use the empty jar for hive trash. Last inspection I am a bit concerned there are a lot of drone brood. Yesterday I have 20 or 30 under developed drones tossed in the jar along with a handfull that are injured and still drunk from overeating. I count out 50 bees and inspect them. 4 live mites still attached to the not quite dead drones. I was hoping that I got a good broodless treatment over winter but flying weather in early Feb may have started the social spreading of the mites. I have just cleaned up the hives for spring and am thinking now would be a good time to treat. My confidence in bee handling and alcohol washes is whats driving me to treat prophylactically. Did I mention that I was lazy?

    All the old timers here being as gruff as they are is what has kept my bees alive. THANK YOU !
    2nd year with bees. 2 Top Bar hives in my back yard.
    Zone 6a. 'Crackpipe' OAV.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Rosebud Missouri
    Posts
    1,571

    Default Re: Diseases & pests

    I have never saw a bee hive even along the side of the road untill two years ago.

    Me being new, how could somebody set a class up for me?

    In my case I read for a good year before I even got bees and probly read and watched enough vidios to be considered as having a 101 class for beginner beekeeping.

    The first thing is how to get bees and put them in the hive. In my case it was a swarm and even though I had been planning on my moves, when it happens along with the excitement is panic. So my avenue is to go to a forum and ask and of course then you get ten differrent avenues with most of them probly being something that will work in some fassion. So you still have to pick through and decide which sound best to you cause you are the one that has to put the advice into action.

    Now they are in the hive, You think they need feeding but there is advice that feeding too much can cause trouble and so you got to the forum and ask. In between that time it is raining and you are scared and so you in your newness think that bees won't fly very far in the rain and so you set a chicken waterer out with some sugar water close to the hive. It has quit raining and you go look and the chicken waterer is empty but you have hundreds of bees fighting at the hive entrance. So then you know you have messed up. You go to the forum for that also. You read both your questions that you have ask and see ten differrent ways it might be handled that you have to decide which has merit and that you have the skill to do. During this some comb is drawn and you are worrying on wether you need to add space and how much space is too much.

    Then it is winter and you have to worry if you should combine or feed or how much does the hive weigh ect.
    The year is done.

    So, I think the 101 class or my reading for a year gets somebody with no ideal the start they need to have a prayer to make it to the next problim and having some sort of support during (in my case the forum). Everybody might be a little quicker then me but I could be considered the least experiance type of beginner.

    The only real thing that I learned was a couple of ways to feed and then it was winter time.

    How do you get all the opitions out to some one that has no clue in a fassion that he might understand and make a resonable choice. I don't think it is really possible and that those with a mentor might have some success but will then have the options that are out there not really where he can understand them because of the mentors method taking forfront. Maby that is not bad because after he has got comfortable with those methods and if he is curious, he can branch out and try to learn more to try and would have what worked so far to fall back on.

    As a newby, I find bee keeping is runing from problim to problim one at a time till you get that resolved and are comfortable and then you try and learn one more thing.

    Ten bee keepers can get ten answers on one question with ten other bee keepers answering and all ten of them may be saying things that sorta work.

    I would say having a follow up resorce as it happens for after the just overview class to get them started and then throwing more options after they have the basics is what is sorta happining now and might still be what works best.

    Over loading them, might not change that they are going to run to the newest problim that they are having at the time and might be too much to process.

    Some of the new bee keepers might not really decide to go treatment free out of lazyness or being anti chemical but more because they have just not got to that problim yet and when they do, it might be to late.

    This can be countered with a treat with this product in august because the odds probly go up if that is done. The risk is that the first time it works there is no reason for the new bee keeper to think of why it worked or why it might not be good to do every time. So I guess it is hard to figure the goal of this thread intent of what to tell a new bee keeper to make him successful.

    The best advice might be to come up with a list of all the bee keepers that are keeping bees for a lot of years in every location and hand those names out and tell the new bee keeper to go look at them and ask what they do and for that bee keeper to do that also but after he is having some success and comfotable keeping bee that way to come back so we can tell you what others are also doing.
    I am not saying all new bee keepers are as slow as processing lot of info at once as I am but some are.
    gww

    Ps When you have fed a hive a couple of differrent ways it seems really easy but remember back to the very first time you were faced with it and all the choices you had to chose from and it is not so simple the very first time you do it. I thinks all these bee keeping things are sorta the same and some one telling helps but it is still intimidating on your first time.
    Last edited by gww; 04-06-2017 at 09:20 AM.
    zone 5b

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Diseases & pests

    Hi,
    I got my long hive on the 1st of Jan, (summer for me in NZ).
    My supplier said to treat around feb/mar as he had already treated them in dec.
    He recommended that I use FGMO every two weeks and some other stuff that I promptly forgot about.

    I dont like poisoning things, even bugs, so the idea of the FGMO sounded like the best option. When I have a rat problem, I trap and drown, so to"drown" mites is my first option.
    I have been fogging through the mesh floor, then sliding the tray closed.
    The nozzle of the fogger points downwards and I am not too sure if I am getting enough coverage.
    The first time, I probably didnt, There was one live mite on the tray after half an hour. This week it was 24 dead with one live, that was after a couple of hours cos I had to go out. This time there were alot of bees that came out of the entranced and milled around behind the robber screen.
    Our area has a large wasp population so this screen has been on from day one.

    I have spent ages studying up on bees etc and put off getting my hive til I had things figured out.
    I do have wintergreen oil to put in the sugar syrup over winter and did make up a 500g lot but on smelling it realised that I had put too many drops in. I put in 4 and think it should only have been one. This is still sitting on the kitchen bench waiting for me to make up more and combine.

    My intention is to get a frame feeder to put the syrup with wintergreen oil in over winter to make sure they do make it through. I have been told that they wont take it if they dont need it, but think oppurtunist creatures always do.
    Also told to stuff the feeder with sticks and/orstraw to stop bees drowning.

    I'd like advise on the ratios of WG oil to syrup and any tips on making sure all the frames are covered when fogging without over doing it.
    What would the best time to fog- obviously when there is most of the bees in the hive, but how late in the day is too late?
    Am I correct in thinking the frame feeder should go at the end away from the entrance? In my long hive that would be towards the middle.
    Anything else?
    Thanks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •