Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    221

    Default Disturbing News from the Honey World

    From today's Seattle Post Intelligencer

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/394053_honey30.asp

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Reno, NV USA
    Posts
    2,310

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jasontatro View Post
    From today's Seattle Post Intelligencer

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/394053_honey30.asp
    Very scary. Thanks for the post.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Loganville, GA
    Posts
    2,172

    Default

    Scary is, there's a market for it here made by the packers themselves looking for cheap honey. Some may see this as the feds picking on the wrong people but I don't see it that way. If there was no market for it, it wouldn't be getting sent here.

    To many a blind eye is turned in this country when there's a dollar is to be made. I hope this and more raids like it shake up the people that can stop the imports by making sure of the quality, before the price and the sale is made.

    The only poor suckers in this mess is the American public and our own beekeeping industry being sold down the road. No sympathy to be had here!
    "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." Winston Churchill

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Snowmass, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    2,497

    Default

    Considering the National Honey Board is now basically run by the Packers and Importers don't look to them to protect American Honey Producers. The "cheap" imported honey is also the major factor in keeping domestically produced honey prices low. Bizzybee is right about people compromising principles for a buck, especially the large corporations...its all about assets and liabilities. Like the article says, very seldom is anything done by the Feds. and if the company is fined or the honey confiscated they write it off as the price of doing business and you can bet the next time they will be more careful getting in that "cheap" honey from overseas.
    Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” John Wayne

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,862

    Default

    >>people compromising principles for a buck, especially the large corporations...its all about assets and liabilities

    Its not our packing companies fault the consumer doesnt give a darn. The blame lies soley on consumers! If they spend thier money in a certain direction, industry will follow, but if consumer habits continue to focus on cheap food, then industry has no choice, or go broke,
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Loganville, GA
    Posts
    2,172

    Default

    That's a convenient dodge Ian. No it isn't the fault of the consumer. They are ignorant to where most of their food is coming from and you know that as well as the rest of us. They buy what's made available to them. They "trust" that their best interests are being kept in mind, foolishly I might add. The consumers will pay what they have to pay to get what they want. Competition between suppliers for low prices to obtain those sales are where the compromises are made. No Way, No How do the importers get a free ride for their actions. They know exactly what they are wagering on and conveniently look the other way.

    I can't speak for Canadians, but I'll bet you will be hard pressed to find anything that resembles even a marginal majority of people in the US that wouldn't pay more for US produced goods. They may whine a little, but they would rather have goods from our own country.
    "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." Winston Churchill

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    owensboro,ky
    Posts
    2,240

    Default

    "...They may whine a little, but they would rather have goods from our own country..." thus you have no clear requirement for country of origin for honey. follow the money....
    "Wine is a constant proof that God loves us and loves to see us happy" Ben Franklin

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Cloud County, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    204

    Default

    Makes me uneasy buying and consuming all the cereals, cough remedies, breads and other food products that are advertised with having honey in them. The labels usually state the products are made (manufactured) in the good old USA, but I wonder where the ingredients come from?

    BB

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Snowmass, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    2,497

    Default

    Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” John Wayne

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Snowmass, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    2,497

    Default

    "White Honey imports up through August 2008 showed a 407% increase over the totalamount imported in 12 months of 2007. All the imported Indonesian honey was white orextra light amber in 2008."

    Up 407%...no wonder US beeks are getting low balled by the packers for their honey.

    "That this mode of fraud is serious is manifested by the fact that
    a whopping 6.4 million pounds of Chinese honey entered Los Angeles in the month of August valued at $0.22/lb. For the first 8 months of 2008, the average customs value for imported white Chinese honey was $0.189/lb. By so grossly under-valuing the honey, the importers’ cash deposit requirements became minimal."

    "Packers report having received over the past year many samples from new importers who offer honey in large quantities from new sources. Those samples have flavor profiles that are like Chinese honey. Pollen analyses have shown that most of the pollen has been filtered out of the honey, but the pollen that remains suggests Chinese origin."

    Seems the situation is only going to get worse for US and Canadian honey producers.

    http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:...nk&cd=11&gl=us
    Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” John Wayne

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    758

    Default cheap chinese honey

    Ian Steppler said "Its not our packing companies fault the consumer doesnt give a darn. The blame lies soley on consumers! If they spend thier money in a certain direction, industry will follow, but if consumer habits continue to focus on cheap food, then industry has no choice, or go broke,"

    I don't think you can blame the consumer entirely on this one.

    Chinese honey is always offered for sale below the current market price.I am sure there exists high quality good Chinese honey out there, but for the past 30 plus years Chinese honey has and is sold below the current market price, both the good and the bad stuff.
    Why, I can only guess, the Chinese gov't may want the foreign currancy, since honey is priced and sold in US dollars.The Chinese sellers seem to want to keep their US market at any cost, just go to the National Honey Board site and see what the chinese imports were selling at in 2008.Lows of .13-.32 and .55 cents/lb.Now compare this 2008 price to 2007, one can see the door was slowly closing.Some of this lower priced stuff may not meet the legal description of honey, but then that huge( 45% PLUS of total market ) industrial U.S. honey market must be filled with something and so alot of chinese honey goes there.

    It is not hard to see that this lower priced Chinese honey depresses or drags down the price of ALL honey on the market.Without Chinese honey the prices for all grades would be higher.Combine the legal trade of Chinese honey with the circumvented or transhipped trade and you got quite a downward force on the honey price in a year that is suppose to have a world shortage of honey.Quotas, duties seem only to lead to more transhipped honey .

    We in Canada far as I am aware do nothing to acertain that the country of origin is as it is proclaimed to be.Where as in the US it would seem the shear volume of imported honey, limited by resources and staff allows alot of illegal imports.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,332

    Default

    I think of it as all part of the Wal-martization of America. The price competition between packers out there for the fewer and bigger retailers has resulted in a product that is clearly inferior to what was packed a few years ago. Unfortunately there seems to be a price war between packers to hold on to the fewer and bigger accounts. I am not defending it just saying that is the reality of the current marketplace. I am a large producer with a warehouse full of nice white honey that is very difficult to move despite what I keep hearing is a worldwide shortage of white honey. Apparently a lot of packers really don't care what the color is just how can I get my product out there cheap enough to keep the big buyers happy. Unfortunately the few really good quality packs that are able to get shelf space just are not influencing honey buyers enough to change things. In a perfect world these higher quality products would bring a higher price instead of just being used to whiten up all the junk that is out there. Pretty frustrating trying to sell honey and read articles like this where the theme is "we have to bring in this stuff because there isn't enough good honey being produced here"

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    758

    Default great post Jim

    Well spoken Jim.
    I noticed several years ago, how much darker the various packs on the shelf seemed to be getting, both in Canada and the US.Was talking to a US packer and remarked about this, he got real offended, I had to keep assuring him it was only my opinion and it seemed to be happening generally industry wide. He insisted his pack had not changed but it seemed to me that his was the darkest honey on the shelf and had changed the most.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,862

    Default

    >>No Way, No How do the importers get a free ride for their actions. They know exactly what they are wagering on and conveniently look the other way. .. I'll bet you will be hard pressed to find anything that resembles even a marginal majority of people in the US that wouldn't pay more for US produced goods.


    >>I don't think you can blame the consumer entirely on this one


    Mabey not entierly, I agree, the workings of the market place is not symplistic. One thing I will not get into here, but will comment on, is I totally dont agree with terriffs. Commodities are priced on avaliability and quality, and if we are truely trading in a world market, access has to go both ways.
    But I do place the majority of the blame on consumers.
    If youd bet majority of consumers would pay more for a product 100% USA, then my friend, they would already be doing that now.
    They are not considering origin when with thier buying habbits, and you know why? Because of their ignorance. Thier ignoracne of food production and its relative pricing.
    I think if they understood what goes into producing the food they eat, they would have a better understanding of this whole issue, and I believe they would change thier spending habbits solely around pricing.

    But until they give a darn, they will continue buying that cheap honey blended with Chinese honey becasue they dont know anybetter, and its priced better.
    I dont have to argue that, its whats happening already,
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    758

    Default Wal-martization of America

    The Wal-Mart motto is, "Always Low Prices. Always."

    So we are back to the cheap food, lets keep the populace happy, even if you destroy all of your domestic producers , just like a lot of domestic industries moved overseas to try and remain competitive.The average consumer doesn't care where his food comes from, as long as it is safe.Not much difference in all the different brands on the wall mart shelf, in price or colour.Wouldn't want to be a packer compiling to their supplier orders.They may even be able to get their prices lower by having their honey packed in China.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,862

    Default

    Guess which company has handled this ressession well these past 6 months,

    Consumers dictate the market place,
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,862

    Default

    >>They buy what's made available to them

    This comment leads into a very complex issue,
    All I have to say is the consumer will buy whats has been made avaliable for them, but they will only pay for what they want,
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    758

    Default made in the U.S.A.

    BizzyBee said "but I'll bet you will be hard pressed to find anything that resembles even a marginal majority of people in the US that wouldn't pay more for US produced goods. They may whine a little, but they would rather have goods from our own country."

    I agree, but you must educate that consumer .The success of HarleyDavison would be a good example .The competition was cheaper inferior Japanese bikes, in the early 70's I think.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    758

    Default Tension in the market

    "There has been great
    tension in the American honey market between a"

    If I were a large packer in the US and I had not brought in what I thought was my fair share of this cheap honey,I would be very scary about losing markets to a competitor stealing my
    accounts with cheaper product. and I would be fearfull of paying higher prices for domestic honey when the present conditions may bring forth more of a shortage depending on how much the recession curbs demand if it does at all.

    I wonder how much less chinese honey has bee imported this year as compared to last couple of years, both legal and illegal.... demand is there and the price is ridiculously low


    "Supply/Demand
    The overall international supply/demand relations point to a firm honey market"

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Loganville, GA
    Posts
    2,172

    Default

    I understand what you folks are talking about. You, I and the people responsible for importing goods of all kinds and those responsible for regulations and imposing tariffs understand. Unfortunately those involved are corrupt or the majority of them anyway.

    You speak of educating a general population of people that do well to get dressed and make it to work without managing to kill themselves. They understanding of economics is how much they can afford to spend each month or even week without bouncing checks. They are no more concerned about their long term health than they are their they long term finances.

    Until you can have them understand and care about their own health or to understand that they will need to live in grass and mud huts to compete in the "world economy", your going to get nowhere.

    Unless tariffs are imposed against goods from 3rd world countries nothing will change. You will never get all of the importers to give two hoots about our country and only buy from reputable sources. There will always be the scum that could care less, stealing business from those that do make the effort.

    I don't stand opposed to doing business with countries such as Canada or others with similar levels of lifestyle. As long as they follow the same practices and aren't funneling goods through their systems. Third world countries are what they are for a reason. They have every much the means to build their own economies as anyone else. If they are content with what they have and the governments they have then so be it. But we nor any other country of our status can afford to do business with those countries without it sucking the life out of our own economies and people.

    If our government isn't to change and I don't suspect it will anytime soon, then the only way anything will change as far as honey is concerned will be to have representation and lobbyist. As it is or as it seems, the only lobbying on behalf of honey is by the large packers themselves. And they are not concerned for our own industry, only themselves. Until someway the industry can find the means to lobby our government in it's current form, nothing is going to change for beekeeping and producers in this country.
    "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." Winston Churchill

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads