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Thread: Two Deadouts

  1. #1
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    Default Two Deadouts

    12/27/08 was 67 degrees,The bees were flying in both yards (11 hives in each) in one yard the bees were all over one hive(robbing) but no fighting.In the other yard, one hive had no bees coming or going,it was getting late 4:00pm so I done nothing.Today 12/28/08 48 degrees I checked them out,both hives had a patch of capped brood on both sides of one frame about the size of your fist.both hives were strong the last of oct.and both hives still had 60 lbs of honey on them? both hives had small dead clusters around the brood(about a double hand full) with maybe 75 to 100 on the bottom board and no dead ones in front of the hive.I never found a dead queen in either hive,so I think that might have been the problem.Both hives have top and bottom entrances and screen bottomboards.One hive made 2 med. of honey and one shallow comb honey super,the other 2 med.of honey excess.I don!t understand what happened to all the bees? 1 was 2 deeps the other 2 deeps and a med.and running over with bees oct.27,wouldn!t you think there would be alot of dead bees on the bottom board?Jack

  2. #2
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    The first thought that comes to my mind is that the hive may have been queenless.
    ~What do you know there's so much to be done
    Count all the bees in the hive, Chase all the clouds from the sky~

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by brooksbeefarm View Post
    Today 12/28/08 48 degrees I checked them out,both hives had a patch of capped brood on both sides of one frame about the size of your fist.

    I never found a dead queen in either hive,so I think that might have been the problem.

    and running over with bees oct.27,wouldn!t you think there would be alot of dead bees on the bottom board?Jack
    >>The first thought that comes to my mind is that the hive may have been queenless.<<

    They had brood, didn't they? So, it wasn't queenlessness. Did they have a Varroa problem? Nosema ceranae?

    How are the other colonies in the yard?

  4. #4
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    Default deadouts

    Michael Palmer,I didn!t see the usal tell,tell signs of nosema.We had some days and nights in the teens 2 weeks ago and yesterday was the first day of flying weather,they had been dead for a while,There was just enough bees to cover the capped brood(2 layers deep) I think they froze.There was a ring of hatched brood with the caps off the cells that didn!t make it out of their cells?I didn!t see any mites,that was the first thing I looked for,The dead cluster felt moist(not wet) and they were matted so I couldn!t see alot,I!m sure you know what I mean.One queen was 2yrs.old the other hive was superceded in july.I powder sugar once a week for 4 weeks in the spring and fall.Maybe the brood has been dead longer than I think?would they still cover it?Still can!t figure out what happen to all those bees?Jack

  5. #5
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    brooks writes:
    I didn!t see the usal tell,tell signs of nosema.

    tecumseh:
    what did you do to look for this subtle killer? are you referring to staining?

    just casually brooks this sounds (by your description) like what folks use to call fall dwindling disease which at least some authorities suggested to be a low level of nosema infestation.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by brooksbeefarm View Post
    I didn!t see the usal tell,tell signs of nosema.

    There was just enough bees to cover the capped brood(2 layers deep) I think they froze.

    I didn!t see any mites,that was the first thing I looked for,

    Still can!t figure out what happen to all those bees?Jack
    N ceranae doesn't show the same old symptoms of staining. The bees just disappear.

    Bees don't freeze. They lost their population, and the tiny cluster probably starved trying to keep the last of the brood alive. I bet the queens are still in the clusters somewhere.

    Pull out some of the bees that died while hatching. Were their tongues sticking out? Do they all have fully formed wings? Are their abdomens as long or longer than the wings, or are they flattened short little things, half the length of the wings? Thinking varroa viruses here.

    Those bees flew away and died out in the field. They do that. It's a way of getting whatever is making them sick, away from the colony.

  7. #7
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    Default deadouts

    Tecumseh,Yes I looked for staining,wasn!t any.I feed my bees 1 gal.of fumagilin-B spring and fall.

    Michael Palmer,I checked the ones that were trying to hatch and yes their tongues were sticking out.Their wings were fully formed and the abdomens were about a 1/6 to 1/8 inch longer than their wings.Sounds like you found the problem.Thanks.Will the drawn comb and honey stores be alright to put on other hives that are short in say Mar. or April?also to start nuc!s?Jack

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by brooksbeefarm View Post
    I checked the ones that were trying to hatch and yes their tongues were sticking out.

    Their wings were fully formed and the abdomens were about a 1/6 to 1/8 inch longer than their wings.

    Sounds like you found the problem.

    Thanks.Will the drawn comb and honey stores be alright to put on other hives that are short in say Mar. or April?also to start nuc!s?Jack
    OK, so the tongues out indicates that they starved.

    The normal sized abdomens and wings indicate no varroa/virus problem.

    So, I'm not so sure I have diagnosed the problem. The question is...why did the adult bees disappear?

  9. #9
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    Default Deadouts

    That!s what puzzled me,at the end of Oct.there was 4 deep frames of bees on pollen,and the other frames had spotted brood and bees in bottom deep.Top deep the 2 outside frames had honey and pollen on both sides,the 6 middle frames mostly honey and brood (tight pattern).The med.super on top had 6 frames of honey mostly capped but the 4 outside frames still had wired wax foundation in them and they had ate holes in them,one frame just had cunks of wax hanging on the wires,like they do in a dearth?I would estimate between 30 to 40 thousand bees and to find a thousand bees or less,dead in the hive is a mystery to me?I!ve had deadouts with thousands of bees still on frames and bottomboard,but never like this.The other hive was similar,but didn!t have a med. super and all the fames were drawn.Jack

  10. #10
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    when you looked at this hive in october would you say their level of brood rearing was average, below average or higher than average (relative of course to your other hives or what you might have witnessed in prior years at that time of year)?

  11. #11
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    Default Deadouts

    tecumseh,the double deep hive was average, the double deep with med. super was a little above average.It was always a little hot and in the shady part of the yard.They say that doesn!t make any difference(being hot) but I!m not so sure.Jack

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