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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    College Station, Texas


    hoschy writes:
    Me interested in where she still lives. I am convinced
    that in the U.S. there are beekeepers, these bee

    I would not be surprised if there was not still some reminamnt up in the applachian mountain chain. A lot of those old time beekeepers use to get a lot of their stock from ferals in the trees (usually when stand of trees were cut for logs).

    best to you and your pursuit..

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Danbury,Ct. USA

    Default Pardon the long cite:

    If you are really looking for the black bee, here's a start.


    Protection of the Black bee
    tirsdag 20. marts 2007
    The situation for the protecktion of the Black bee (Apis mellifere mellifera) on Læsø

    The background

    On the isolated Island of Læsø, Denmark has a population of black bees Apis mellifera mellifera.

    The black bees on the Island have been kept there by beekeepers for many years. They are gentle, productive with a high tolerance to adverse climatic condi-tions. The majority of beekeepers on Læsø, with the support of the Danish Beekeepers Association have for many years worked for establishing Læsø as a conservation area for the black bee.

    We succeeded in 1993 when Læsø was declared a conservation area of the black bee, Apis mellifera mellifera. Only black bees should be allowed on Læsø, and no imports were permitted.

    This was a huge step forward in the conservation of the biodiversity of bees in Europe, and one of the few situations where Denmark fulfilled its obligations to the Rio Convention.

    The problems

    A few beekeepers questioned the legal background of the regulation and obstructed the conservation. Legal battles took place through several years until the European Court and local courts finally i 2001 declared the conservation area legal.

    Change of government in 2002 in Denmark gave new momentum to the battle against the conservation area. The liberal government does not support the conservation area. The new minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food Mrs. Mariann Fischer Boel was basically against the conservation. She asked the Ministry to prepare a new report on the rationale behind the conservation area.

    The conclusion was: The conservation of the black bee is justified and an important issue in fulfilling Denmarks obligations to the Rio Convention.

    But for political reasons the report gave several solutions to solve the problems.

    The ministry decided to make a protected mating station for the black bee in the very eastern part of Læsø and allow other bee races on other parts of Læsø. With the further limitation that the area should only be protected until 20th of July each year.

    Mrs. Mariann Fischer Boel became in 2004 the European commissioner of Agriculture, her predecessor as Minister Mr. Hans Chr. Schmidt continues the work to allow other bee races on Læsø.

    The positions

    The ministry and government owned Danish Bee Research Laboratory stated that this solution is viable and gives sufficient isolation to make a high degree of pure matings. Independent scientists and the Danish Beekeepers Association are convinced that this is not the case. Winds from the West are predominantly on Læsø. The distance from the western borderline to the mating station is less than 3 km. There will be an influx of drones from all Læsø to the mating station.

    Strong support of the conservation

    Due to strong support from independent scientists and organisations we succeeded to get some improvements into the new regulation.

    The mating area on the easternmost end of Læsø is protected all year, and a large portion of the government owned plantations on Læsø are reserved for black bees. The government gave a very small grant to the Læsø Beekeepers Association to help them run the mating station.

    The situation just now

    The ministry took on the task to get all „non-black bees" removed from the „protected" mating area. This has not happened yet.

    The Ministry promised to make DNA analyses of all bee colonies on Læsø to facilitate the selection of black bees. The bees have been collected but no results of the analyses yet, so no help for the selection this year. The Ministry promised to register all bee-colonies on the Island in order to facilitate the removal of „non-black bees" from the „protected areas". It ended up with a regulation that is asking for an annual registration of black bees, while the other beekeepers only need to register once, with no further follow up. The Ministry has moved a few colonies of black bees to another Island where they can be maintained with very large expenses.

    The Danish Beekeepers Association have accepted to investigate the possibilities to have other bee races on the Island. But unless the Ministry fulfils it own regulations promptly this is definitely not possible.

    The Beekeepers Association of Læsø does a huge effort to produce a high number of black bee colonies. But to make pure matings is very difficult due to the permission to have other bees on most of the Island.

    Presented at the Apimondia congress in Dublin, Ireland 2005
    Flemming Vejsnæs, Rolf Theuerkauf and Asger Søgaard Jørgensen

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Hamm, Deutschland

    Default mellifera

    Danke für die Informationen zur Situation der schwarzen Biene auf der Insel in Dänemark.
    In Deutschland sind aber die Probleme Schutzgebiete für die schwarze Biene einzurichten noch viel größer. Unsere alte dunkle Biene wird mit Füssen getreten. Jetzt sind wir carniolans-buckfast-land.
    Solange es aber in den Nachbarstaaten noch schwarze Bienen gibt, bleibt die Hoffnung auf eine neue Besiedlung der dunklen Biene in Deutschland.
    Grüße, Hoschy
    Thanks for the information on the situation of black
    Bee on the island in Denmark.
    In Germany, but the problems for Protected Areas
    the black bee to set much higher. Our
    old dark bee will be trampled. Now
    We carniolans-Buckfast country.
    As long as it is in neighboring states still black
    Bee there remains the hope of a new settlement
    the dark bee in Germany.
    Regards, Hoschy
    Last edited by Hoschy vom Griesenbruch; 12-07-2008 at 04:36 AM. Reason: Anhang

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Lexington, KY, USA

    Default Black Bees

    Hello Hoschy et al. In another post I mentioned that this summer and fall I did have some black bees on our hummingbird feeders. I was pleasantly surprised but still don't know where they came from. Hopefully it is a feral hive and maybe someone has some suggestions of how to trace them. Finding a hive such as this would be very interesting, especially if they are really wild living Apis mellifera mellifera. Take care and have fun.

    Hallo Hoschy et al. In einer früheren Nachricht hier habe ich gesagt das diesen Sommer schwarze Bienen an unserem Kolibrifutternapf waren. Ich war glücklich und erstaunt aber ich weiß immer noch nicht wo sie her kamen. Hoffentlich ist das ein wildes Volk und vielleicht kann mir jemand Vorschläge machen wie man sie finden kann. Einen Bau von so einem Volk zu finden wäre sehr interessant, besonders wenn sie wirklich wild lebendede Apis mellifera mellifera sind. Sei auf Hut und habe Spass.

    P.S. Today it is about 22F and much too cold for bees, but then there are the books!
    Heute ist es ungefähr 6C und viel zu kalt für Bienen, aber dann gibst ja Bücher zu lesen!

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Hamm, Deutschland

    Default mellifera

    Hi lieber Alex,
    ich komme gerade aus meinem Garten wo meine Bienen stehen, einige fliegen, es ist sonnig und 9C warm. Ich wünsche mir eine Biene, die hier in Nordrhein-Westfalen um diese Jahreszeit nicht ausfliegt und das ist die dunkle Biene. Meine Kollegen glauben mir nicht, aber ich sage, seht euch die Ameisen im Garten an, diese sind nicht domestiziert und krabbeln nicht bei jeder Temperaturschwankung aus.
    Was wir brauchen ist eine Biene die den Umweltbedingen standhalten bzw. angepasst sind an die ökologischen Verhältnisse.
    Allerdings, was nutzt die beste Biene wenn uns diese durch Chemie (Gifte) kaputt gemacht wird. "Erst stirbt die Biene und dann wir".
    Ich freue mich auf weitere Konversationen und nach deinen dunklen must du im nächsten Jahr suchen.
    Hi dear Alex,
    I have just come from my garden where my bees
    stand, some fly, it is sunny and warm 9C. I
    I would like a bee, here in North Rhine-Westphalia
    in order not ausfliegt this season and this is the
    dark bee. My colleagues do not believe me, but I
    say, you see the ants (Lasius niger) in the garden, these are
    not domesticated and are not crawling at each
    Temperature fluctuation from.
    What we need is a bee with the Umweltbedingen
    stand or adapted to the ecological
    However, what uses the best when we have this bee
    by chemical (poisons) will be broken. "Only dies
    the bee and then we, or rather we die? ".
    I look forward to further conversations and after your
    Must dark you are looking for next year.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Fresno California USA

    Default Mell. mell.

    In the mid 1970's I lived in the country West of Gilroy, Calif. A beekeeper friend of mine "took care" of the bees on an old estate on Hecker pass. Huge old Victorian mansion, vineyards, orchards, cattle etc. The old widow lived in the big house. The place had its own apiary natch. There were 12 or 15 colonies on a big stand. The bees were all the same: shorter but larger around than Italians. Dark but not black, more brown. They were really different. By the time the cover was off and maybe one frame pulled virtually all the bees were on the outside of the box, hanging in a nervous cluster. They would run at the slightest provocation and had an annoying way of getting on you and "buzzing" with their wings. The old lady dictated management: All kept in singles, allowing them to swarm. Fill empties with swarms. After swarm season, shallows were put on . It was a pretty good area for bees. She had her own extractor, set it up in the screened porch.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Hamm, Deutschland

    Default mellifera

    Hi Tom, danke für die Information. Nach deiner Beschreibung handelte es sich um eine dunkle Biene. Das Verhalten ist typisch für Heide-Bienen. In Skandinavien gibt es diese noch.

    Hi Tom, thanks for the information. After your
    Description was a dark bee. That
    Behavior is typical for heath bees. In Scandinavia
    There is still this.
    Kind regards, Hoschy

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2002
    San Mateo, CA


    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G. Laury View Post
    In the mid 1970's, Gilroy, Dark but not black, more brown. They were really different. By the time the cover was off and maybe one frame pulled virtually all the bees were on the outside of the box, hanging in a nervous cluster. They would run at the slightest provocation and had an annoying way of getting on you and "buzzing" with their wings.
    The feral bees were similar in San Mateo county at that time. Impossible to find the queen due to the running and stinging. We converted them by gassing with ammonium nitrate, shaking off in front of the hive, and running them back in with a queen excluder at the entrance. New queen introduced above a division screen, old queen painted, and squish and merge after acceptance of new queen.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Corralitos, CA, USA


    Where is Michael Bush? Didn't he talk about German black bees on occasion?


  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    san antonio.texas USA


    My question is do/did german black bees have a more of a propensity to nest in the ground (or caves) than Italians? I am doing a personal research project regarding an 1866 Mason County Texas incident. The story was that a fellow named James Smith, a honey hunter, was attempting to retrieve honey from a cave on the Llano river. He was climbing down from the bluff above when his rope snapped and he fell to his death. I assume the bees in the area were the German Black bees. I know Italians prefer to nest in trees, not caves. I know AHB don't mind nesting in the ground, but were obviously not present at the time. Any insight would be appreciated.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA


    I was finding a lot of dark survivors that had a lot of the qualities of the German bees. I haven't had time to collect them so much in recent years because of a change in jobs that ties up a lot more of my time and mine don't seem to have those qualities so much anymore. Such as making a lot of propolis and being runny in addition to being small and black.
    Michael Bush "Everything works if you let it." 41y 200h 38yTF

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Hamm, Deutschland

    Default mellifera

    Thank you for the very interesting hints, I've noted. I have also heard of dark bee belongs, which nests in rocks, whether the ligustica do less remains to betested. I will after this Conduct research in Europe.
    A special feature of the bee is that in France and Spain from bee keeper just empty Boxes are positioned in the shoals revoke (extensive mode of operation).
    I hope for further instructions. Greetings from snowbound Westphalia, Hoschy


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