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  1. #161
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Ohio
    Posts
    856

    Wink packers games

    Hay Rick,
    The packer your talking about low balled me on a load last year when they really need it. They called back a day later trying to get the load and I had already sold it. There lost is my gain. I don't play games.

  2. #162
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    749

    Default Packers we called offering $1.38 for white, $1.33/4 ELA.

    So deflation is occurring in the US honey market.................. me thinks the packers would like us producers to believe that while a world shortage is growing

    We still have the cheap Chinese factor plying the market for those packers who prefer this type of honey......... this market has had and is in tremendous growth, one US- Chinese packer has expanded from one to three packing plants .Current offers of Chinese white honey $1500/ton
    plus container and freight.......... and not all this Chinese honey is contaminated or adulterated, but you take your chances on buying it even if you were lucky once before ,odds are you will get not what you want

    Then there's the Billion dollar lawsuit against the US gov't and the insurance companies that let in all the past cheap chinese honey without duties and I won't even bring up the transshipped Chinese honey from India, Russia, you name the country.
    No , there is no deflation in the US honey market, only low offers based on packer perception and deceit and cheap competition with Chinese honey

  3. #163
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fresno California USA
    Posts
    2,479

    Default

    Irwin, it seems that at least right now, in the short run, most everything is deflating in price. The Chinese got in and made their money while the making was good. Now that they have asserted their product in the market it's going to be very difficult to eliminate them. Looking ahead I would say that they will be more competitive than we have seen yet.

    I really appreciate all your informative posts and producers outlook! Thank You!

  4. #164
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    749

    Default 2009 Chinese honey crop prices moving up

    acacia honey: it is comeing at first, so the price is not stable.
    now the price is very high.
    shandong wei factory offer:fob china port usd2600/mt
    daliang ma factory offer:fob china port usd3000/mt

    above is taken from a email
    dickering with a Chinese broker,seller,.......... just to see what prices ,production is

    Originally this person quoted me $1500/MT for white.......... may have been " a come on" PRICE
    Last edited by irwin harlton; 06-05-2009 at 04:48 PM. Reason: more info

  5. #165
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fresno California USA
    Posts
    2,479

    Default

    Thanks again! So is that then $1.30 & $1.50 per pound?

    FOB China, I have no idea what a container costs to ship but that looks a strong price.

  6. #166
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fresno California USA
    Posts
    2,479

    Default

    Or is Metric ton 2200. I'm dumb about this.

  7. #167
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    749

    Default metric ton = 2200 lbs

    $2600/mt=$1.18/LB

    3000/MT= 1.36/LB PLUS CONTAINER AND FREIGHT

    Freight 1.to winnipeg:2825usd
    2.to souris manitoba:3550usd .......... about 12cents/lb freight

    These Chinese prices are comparable to the latest prices I have seen on NHB site for dec/08, which is 1.56

  8. #168
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fresno California USA
    Posts
    2,479

    Default Another Dumb One

    " PLUS CONTAINERS " Does the buyer pay a drum fee? If so roughly how much?
    Last edited by Tom G. Laury; 06-05-2009 at 09:37 PM. Reason: figured it out

  9. #169
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    749

    Default shipping containers

    come in various sizes , usually 20FT or 40FT, holding 20 or 40 mt, these are bought, rented or included in the freight ,drums are sometimes double stacked in a 20ft, easily transported by rail or truck

  10. #170
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    749

    Default an interesting story unfolding

    it is on the NHB site http://www.honey.com/honeyindustry/statistics.asp

    Click on Total Averages from Four Countries (2004-2008) and Average Import Price of Honey (2006-2008)

    The stats are 4 months behind, this I can somewhat understand, but it is 1/4 of a year!!!!

    The cheapest place in the world to buy honey now appears to be USA ( if some generous packer can fool some hardup producer)

    In Total Average Bulk Prices of Honey Imported from Four Countries, note the cheap chinese prices to dec08 then the december price.

    The world shortage me thinks is growing, could it be possible the NHB is not serving the producers but only the importers and the packers, I would bet alot that this is the case
    Last edited by irwin harlton; 06-07-2009 at 09:57 AM. Reason: more info added

  11. #171
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lancaster, Ky. / Frostproof Fl.
    Posts
    983

    Default

    One industry group(APH) gripped, groweled and played with lawyers until the honey board changed from a board with producer input to no producer input. I will say it wasnt perfect, made alot of changes, got better but the importers and packers got tired of it so now we have no input. At the last minute APH (ie Richard Adee) realized what was going to happen but too late. Mr ADEE pretty much called all the shots and In my opinion wasnt always honest with his members. Now with the importer/packer board and some of those on the board that was involved with the recent Seattle newspaper articles and chinese honey sounds like we have the fox guarding the henhouse!

  12. #172
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fresno California USA
    Posts
    2,479

    Default Honey Board

    Seemed like all the producer input was money
    All the benefit was packer.
    My understanding is that AHP is trying to form an entity to promote DOMESTIC honey.

  13. #173
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lancaster, Ky. / Frostproof Fl.
    Posts
    983

    Default

    True Tom...but at least we had some input. Dont think the penny isnt taken into consideration now when a producer gets a offer! I was at the Denver meeting in Aug 1986 wen the honey board was formed. We all had the idea it was going to promote OUR honey....(US honey) The USDA rep at the meeting informed us it HAD to promote all honey and not US. Unfair to the other countries since all honey had to pay(bill was written that way and couldnt be changed) I thought Binford Weaver was going to blow a fuse over all this and it wasnt the way he envisioned it! We were all mad but thats politics...they always look out for everyone else. I think MR Adee being against the board is the math ( 50,000 hives 100 lbs/hive @.01/lb = 50,000 dollars/yr his cost of a board!) The thing that disturbes me is while I was on the ABF board was some things he said and told his members were outright not true! I believe he looks out for RIchard and NOT the industry as a whole....but I guess if I had 50K hives I might too althought I hope I wouldnt. But we desperately need a board to for many reasons from educating the public to research. Alot of good has came from the board. If we hadnt increased the demand for honey we would have still have had imports and less dollars for ours. I hope we do get a US board but I dont think it will happen...too much politics in DC and who is going to do it? .....honey has been sold as a commodity too long...HONEY is not HONEY! There is a big differance....see next post!

  14. #174
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lancaster, Ky. / Frostproof Fl.
    Posts
    983

    Default

    To increase price we must sell honey like fine wine......differant floral source. People are fast becoming aware of the differance between "store brand" honey and local honey! Now to accomplish this here ae a couple of problems and if anyone has any suggestions please post them! Sourwood honey is currantly being sold throughtout the southeast that is not sourwood....deliberately mislabeled. One packer in North east Tennessee is selling quarts case of 12 clover delivered to KY for $67.00 for clover and 69.00 for sourwood. It the same honey!!! We as a industry need to come up with some standards for floral source honey(us board or currant board(but remember fox is guarding the hen house now). Sourwood honey is easy to identify due the the shape of the pollen in it. If you do the math and ex white honey is 1.50 producers dock a quart has about 4.50 plus jar(.50). so cost is 5.00 plus delivery and bottling overhead(usually about .10/lb) So cost delivered to Ky is about 5.50/qt or 5.60 qt. Where is the profit? Or what is in the JAR???????????? Lets all get the honey standard in our state for starters! Rick

  15. #175
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    5,751

    Default

    I hear what your saying, definitely would be nice to have a standard measure on the honey sold on the shelves. But the way I see it, most honey sold today on the self isnt labeled by floral, but rather colour. Honey being collected from every part of the planet ,a nd sold as it comes in. Nothing wrong with that, as long as the honey isnt adulterated. Trade is trade, and we all have to realize everyone benefits in equal trade.

    Bottom line, the consumers decide how the honey is sold, and right now they are demanding quality, abundance and price. Thats what we are giving them, thats what they get. Until the mass consumer habits change, this is how honey will be sold.

    I realize the logistics around providing shelf space, and supplying the consumer with discount foods, but I tell you, if the consumer lean towards different buying habits, the retail suppliers will accommodate them. You can see it with organics right now, you can see it with local produced food right now. You see it with healthy living trends.
    We will see it with the way our honey is produced, packed and sold also. But in time, and after we as an industry invest more time into educating the public.

    You can beat the mule with a stick, or use the stick to lead the mule with a carrot,
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  16. #176
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Ohio
    Posts
    856

    Thumbs Up public educating

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    But in time, and after we as an industry invest more time into educating the public.
    I sell 75% of my honey to other small beekeeper that do the pubic educating. Most of their sale have increased by 200% in the past two years. I find this is a better way then paying out the penny and I'm selling my honey for more too.

  17. #177
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Tamworth, NSW Australia
    Posts
    259

    Default Honey: Money Medicine and Food

    Asking the fox to come up with a solution will work well,............... for the fox!

    When the consumer can no longer trust his government nor his supermarket to police his food chain, that consumer will become his own policeman.

    The rapid increase in beekeepers selling direct to their public is the best solution. The fox misses out there altogether. The Poor Fox. If that beekeeper proves that he cannot be trusted, his market will fail. But generally, beekeepers donít have the volume, the processing facilities nor the motivation to invest in a lot of cheating. His simplest methods of producing and distributing are quite acceptable to the public in most cases. He is also the best positioned of all vendors to promote the product, as he knows it like they never will.

    Local producer-packers may never replace the supermarket, but we can certainly revive and retrieve our industry from oblivion by moving away (however temporarily) from the idea that we are only interested in bulk sales.

    Produce less and sell more direct. That action itself can change the world of honey! It can change your own world dramatically too.

    Honey is the perfect product to have. It qualifies very high as a monetary commodity, it qualifies as a medicine and it is a time honoured food, yet it is simple and fundamental to produce and market. If we as beekeepers throw our weight behind that move, I can assure you the rest of the foxes will soon align themselves accordingly. They have one major disadvantage............. they donít have any bees and honey! They can only survive a limited time selling substitutes and look-alikes.

    Question: What are the three worst value commodities in the market place right now?
    Answer: Money, medicine and food.

    Honey is all of the above, and science will never replace it with something better.

    Make no mistake about it, however. The market is waking up (slowly?) to substitutes and frauds. This is partly owing to the total predominance of same, but also to the aging of the baby boomers. The older one gets the more likely it is that he/she will wake up to reality!

    There is far more money to be made retailing honey than there is in producing it, certainly in the short term.

    Cheers,

    JohnS

  18. #178
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Lancaster CA
    Posts
    410

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    I was recently in Florida and bought some real Tupelo. WOW it was great. all the Tupelo that I have tasted, mainly from health food shops was NOT Tupelo. I was amazed that it was so thick and produced in a high humidity region. For the rest of my trip, I ate the Tupelo and let my Black Sage sit in the cupboard. On the subject of consumers, most of my customers are oriental. They demand GOOD honey. The biggest problem we have with American consumers is that they get one of those restraunt packsof honey, of which the best are poor and worst are not fit for bee feed, and they will never want honey again. For 30 years now, I have supplied most of the restraunts in town with #1 black sage honey in 6# pour jugs. I supply all the bears they need. This way, people can learn what real honey should taste like. I make money while beating the price of the restraunt packs. I also write off a few thousand per year and call it advertising.

  19. #179
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    749

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Canadian honey selling to Canadian packers within the last 6 weeks for 1,75 and 1.80/lb
    This is in US Dollars 1.51 AND 1.56.... there are no USA packers paying this price , guess the world shortage of honey is being crushed by the deflation and recession in the USA and world supply and demand do not enter the picture . It appears the cheapest place to buy honey is from the USA producer

  20. #180
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Ohio
    Posts
    856

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    I will have to start extracting early this year because of the big honey shortage. I have already sold 25 barrels at $1.85 lb and the orders are still coming in. How long will this shortage last?

    Having problems finding good barrel this year. I think last years high scrap price did away with a lot of barrels.

    2009 honey crop is looking good and hope the price stay up too.

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