Deflation , then inflation and currently a whole bunch of de-leaverageing going on in this crazy economy, which I hear from the majority with crystal balls, that is only going to get worse as a recession or a depression .
Heard some packers had dropped their offering prices......... hadn't noticed any downward pricing going on the store shelf's,to the contrary , prices were actually going up there.
A Canadian honey broker recently had a offer out for 1.50 Canadian,picked up in your yard, drums lost , for 10 loads, alot of phone calls later the order was filled and she is working on another order for the same price,I hear. Canadian dollar was trading around 1.25 US. That may be GOOD PRICE at present market conditions........ but I doubt it.I don't think supply and demand have entered the big picture yet.Other Current Canadian offers were 1.40. UK honey is selling at up to £2.30 per pound in BULK- source Bee -L.
Maybe that supply and demand won't enter the pic if the packers get there way.
I must remind myself that honey is not one of those necessity foods like bread and milk and that I don't need to be quite as greedy as some of those wall street folks
Well, I am sure he can find some cheaper stuff than that if he really wants to look,(chinese)I'm sure he will be expanding his sales with these new low cost prices and be adjusting his price accordingly on these new cheap sources so he can gain even more market share.
The race to the bottom has begun
Kudos to you Sb, because it's the real truth. If your a big beek they can act as your warehouse. But if not, there's no advantage to being a member. They're the price leader on the shelf and it looks like garbage. You would think with all the honey the peeps are sitting on up there in the upper Midwest!!! But They can buy it cheaper elsewhere, just like all the big packers!!!
Now if you are a sue member, does that mean they have to buy all you product. I was talking to a beekeeper that is a member and he sent in a load of melter honey. He said they wouldn't pay for it. Where does 20 ton of blending honey end up? When we sold to the big packer. We would have a few barrels of melter that we could working in, of course at a much lower price, but would get something for it. Hard to compete with a company that gets free honey. Looking at what sue bee has on the shelf and the price is the top $. The market must have went more to darker honey. Where did the nice light honey go in the stores? We still produce white honey, is the consumers afraid what they are buying if it's to light????
I don't think Sue even accepts melter honey from members. I think a disposal fee might even be in place. I thought the color was pretty good the last few years when I checked.
The $ in retains is less than 1/2 of any recent estimates in this thread. Sue is a legitimate co-op that puts lots of good product out.
Sue Bee is a big part of the high honey prices over the past decades. Sue Bee and its members have paid in millions of dollars to fund anti-dumping and anti-circumvention campaigns.
Hate to tell you but Sue has done more harm to prices than any packer other than Groeb in my opinion. I am friends with several big packers and Im not going to call names but sue has not protected and acted in beekeepers best interest. Mr. Householder is right...go taste of a mid west beekeepers honey then taste sue...what the ×=%÷ did they put in the jar with that good midwest honey? Even if they retain 5 pct of 5 yrs gross how much money is that for a big beek and how much could they make investing that in THEIR business? But tell me how much has Sue paid for honey the last 3 years since you dont know when you deliver. But thats OK Mr Househokder and myself will keep delling more GOOD honey to the consumer at much higher prices than Sue members get. Last two yrs Ive sold my orange for 2.45 and 2.35 per pound in barrels. How much did sue members get for theirs? If I packed it I got about 2,500 per drum. A coop member should get between thise two figures if the coop is working for the beekeeper.
Rick,
Does sue bee buy orange blossom????? Unlike other packers they don't buy melter honey from there members. The member that told me that sue bee didn't paid for it last year. He told me by him being a member he can't even sell it to me.:scratch: What is sue selling bakery grade honey for???
Opinions are like feet, everyone has a couple and, except for mine, I think most of them stink. We have paid huge piles of money to boost the bulk price of honey in the U.S. and the efforts worked. We start every day trying to pay the beekeeper (ourselves) more for honey in the barrel.
Your facts about about the retains are still wrong, too high even after you cut your original statement in 1/2. I would love to have heard that "apples to oranges" speech you gave about Sue Bee way back when.
I think I get where you are headed on the melter honey thing. It's a small market to sell that stuff. The supply was greater than the demand, therefor the price got lowered all the way to zero. Perhaps there is some of the stuff in storage from years past? Just a guess, I have no knowledge of it.
There is always a lag time with Sue. So our pay out for production is usually whatever the price was 6-12 months ago. When prices were on the rise we were under the spot price for honey. It went on like that for several recent years. Now I'm still getting the price from 6-12 months ago. Members never saw the high spot price we all heard about, but I'm probably not going to see the lows we hear about either. We all hope it stabilizes before this next crop comes in.
With melter honey at zero. I'm needing to break my pig and buy some loads for these bakery honey contracts. Really what is the going price of bakery(melter honey). $.25 or maybe $.50 what is feed molasses or HFCS going for. Really if sue can't use it. The member should be able sell or give it for the same price sue does (FREE). What is the spot price on melter 6-12 months ago????
Thanks Irwi. I appreciate Ron Phipps and his insights into our industry. I like that he is to the point. Looks like there is some cause for slight optimism, but as the man says "do not underestimate the machinations of honey circumumvention." So now we have some fancier machines to identify fake honey. The circumventers will fiure out a way to cheat.
I always wondered about chinese honey consumption and there was answer, the chinese eat way way more honey than they produce. Half of all store shelf honey is adulterated with 70-100% alternative sweeteners, wow. Evidently the supply is short on a worldwide basis, yet we have to compete with adulterated honey on price. Based on supply and demand beekeepers should be doing very well, yet now it is almost impossible to sell good honey irrespective of price.
The article points out that adding some flocculants to absorb antibiotics then running it through a ceramic filter yields a clear white syrup which is nearly pure simple sugars and water. This syrup can then be blended with honey in another country to pick up the flavor and pollen profile. The result looks a lot like honey, but can no longer be identified as originating in China. Since China is producing honey for about ten cents per pound, they can then sell it in the international market at a profit even at prices half the market rate. The net effect is to depress the price of honey in all other producing nations, especially in the U.S. and Canada.
A lot of the chinese honey is fake. Even the chinese honey consummer in china is complaining because so much of it is fake on their store shelves, yet the rest of the world has to compete with this "honey". The article pointed that out as well, very eloquently, I may add.
Dishonest brokers and packers here and abroad,make it far too easy to buy .95 honey and make a huge profit. In Spain ,local beekeepers were paid a premium , perhaps to help blend this product.The packer in Spain who sold packed product into Canada and had some recalled because of Chloratetraphonal tells me it is his customer who decides what to pack and where to sell.ALL honey on the market being sold is being tested, everyone buying knows what they are getting.The price alone should make the buyer draw the right conclusions.The World shortage and the high price has actually promoted these counterfitters,fraud artists who tarnish the good name of honey
aah but do the buyers really know what they are getting............ blend in a little real honey with pollen, or just add the pollen,not doubt some of this funny honey is easily distinguished when in its pure form, and hard to sell. It's when it' IS blended and brought up to a certain standard .. that fools the best of the buyers... It takes a corrupt packer to do this and the profits are huge
So basically, what you're saying, is all the Chinese honey being dumped is all fake?
From my observations, the above is most likely true. If it comes in a closed head drum of the color of the year, tastes like !@#$, (it tastes the same no matter what neighboring country it comes from), and the price is too good to believe: it most likely is NOT honey. No person of average intelligence could possibly believe it is real honey.
The problem is not the pure syrup, it is the blends. 1 pound of good honey for $2 blended with 2 pounds of junk honey from china at $.70 per pound adds up to $3.40 for 3 pounds. Almost all packers are going to take a hard look given that 3 pounds of good honey is $6.00 per this example. These numbers are not exact, but they illustrate the reason cheap ultra-filtered honey is such a problem in the market.
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