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  1. #721
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    Dec 2008
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    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Irwin - none of the above.

    Don't want to show my hand yet. AS it becomes prudent, I will gladly share.

    Crazy Roland

  2. #722
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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    36

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    While the United States discovers that 70% of honey sold in supermarkets has no pollen, China discovers that 70% of honey sold on their shelves is rice sirop.
    http://www.house-holder.com/?p=2011
    http://www.ichainnel.com/en/read.php...9_fc567d&tr=en

    These two stories are chinese blogs translated in english. Very hard to understand but after a few times you get the big picture...

    A new set of regulations for honey is to be put in place by the end of the year in China.
    I heard the same for the United States in a beekeeping meeting. Some sort of a traceabilty system for imported honey. Has anyone heard about this?
    Last edited by cleareyes; 11-19-2011 at 06:45 PM.

  3. #723
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    souris, manitoba, canada
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    749

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Good news , if its true , FDA is going to change the regulations on imported honey,sometime in the new year, it would seem the circumnavigation by the Chinese has finally pissed someone off that has the power to do something, rather than chasing around a bunch of crooked clown brokers and hundreds of loads of contaminated, adulterated honey.China is also suppose to clean up her act on her side of the pond at the same time . It would seem the honey industry may have helped to start this clean up of itself, as it has been a long downward journey for the industry with two price tiers
    Hope this is all true and hats off to all the people who have worked so hard in the past to get this.

  4. #724
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    FRASER VALLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Irwin:

    On the GMO side, it may appear to us as a trade barrier but the goo ol judge who made the decision had to work with what he had. Apparently with the laws wriiten as they are now this is the ruling hehad to make. I agree that they've got a mess over there, and it could grow to swallow a bunch of other commodities.

    As far as the chinese go, well thatr's another story. After reading part of the one article they have 4 grades of honey: Pass, fake, fake fake and fake fake fake. If pollen is the only issue with their honey then if I'm a chinese broker, the after ultrafiltering then I would dissolve required amount of pollen in water then mix it in my ultrafiltered tank and voila. You can have canola honey, clover honey, acacia whatever you like. Don't worry I'm not giving them inspiration, they get an A+ for this sort of rascal type of behavior.

    Everytime some sort of legal hurdle is placed in front of them, they find a way around it.

    Jean-Marc

  5. #725
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    4,241

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by jean-marc View Post
    Irwin:



    If pollen is the only issue with their honey then if I'm a chinese broker, the after ultrafiltering then I would dissolve required amount of pollen in water then mix it in my ultrafiltered tank and voila. You can have canola honey, clover honey, acacia whatever you like.

    Everytime some sort of legal hurdle is placed in front of them, they find a way around it.

    Jean-Marc
    I have been thinking along those same lines. Isnt the bigger issue, though, the heavy metals and illegal antibiotics that may be in the honey. Is anyone claiming that filtration takes these things out as well?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  6. #726
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    souris, manitoba, canada
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Jean Marc
    If you excel at being a Chinese broker as well as you are a beekeeper ,you will be rich, and your new host country for this endeavour,buisness would be Argentina ?,.That's from the story I heard today,truth being stranger than fiction, production in Argentina has fallen dramatically over the last few years and it is to become the new host for the funny honey shippers.
    Those legal hurdles have been like stepping stones,cheap honey sells, adultrated,containated cheap honey sells, the US industrial honey market seems to have a unlimited capacity if the price is right or lower.
    Jim
    I don't think you can remove all of the contaminates from the honey by ultra-filtering ( Chinese ultra-filtering). i think they still use the same test to find chloramphenicol ,at least they still have been finding it, by parts per billion .What has been occurring is they are blending it out as far as they can with India or whatever honey,much like a certain Australian packer did with the nitorfurans in Argentina honey a few years back.

    As for the latest Canadian honey buyer price offerings, they are hardly worth commenting on. Honey being a commodity is subject to the same volatility as silver , oil and gold. Does seem a little strange that there would be 10 cents difference just over the border.Canada being a net honey exporter(al be a small honey exporter in the total world production)needs more competition in the bulk buyer market.Just like when the buyers get a
    little greedy when prices are declining,their greed pushing them further down, the sellers, producers get the same when prices start to soar.Maybe thats why we have co-ops
    .

  7. #727
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    Mar 2008
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    Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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    36

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Here's where you guys have me completely lost... If this is all true,
    I'll have to agree with Roland about the "phunny honey".
    To me "phunny honey" is honey that contains a certain % of an additive.
    The biggest additive in the recent years has been rice sirop.
    What caught my attention in this chinese blog was the carbone-3 testing device. The chinese have this technology since march 2011. This is the reason behind the 70% discovery of rice sirop instead of honey on the shelves of the chinese supermarkets.
    Why is it important?
    For the maple sirop industry in Quebec (I believe we produce approximately 100 million pounds, not sure, anyways, we are the largest producer in the world), it is crucial and to my knowledge this technology did not exist before, making rice sirop in maple sirop undetectable.
    3 years ago, during an annual meeting for our honey co-op (we are part of the maple sirop co-op) (http://www.citadelle-camp.coop/sirop-erable/index.aspx), the two reasons given for the decrease in revenue (maple sirop co-op) the previous year was the dollar appreciation and rice sirop. We had the oppprtunity to compare the two products and people with 30 years experience in the industry were unable tell which was which, the real stuff from the fake!
    To me it is obvious, since it is (or it was) undetectable, that it found it's way into honey, one way or an other.
    Carbone-3 testing is done in order to detect rice sirop and sugar beet (98% of plants on the planet produce carbone-3). The carbone-4 testing is done in order to detect corn sirop, sugar cane, starch (2% of plants on the planet produce carbone-4).
    I'm I getting too hyped over this? I know the rules are probably going change but if this (and it seems that it exists) is integrated within the new rules a whole lot of sh"" is going to change... this wipes out 99.9% of all plants on earth right out of the equation for a possible sugar additive!
    I know a lot of maple sirop producers who are going to be very happy about this one...
    Last edited by cleareyes; 11-23-2011 at 07:39 AM.

  8. #728
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Sparta, Mi, USA
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    55

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    $1.85 for a semi load from a midwest packer, and they picked it up.

  9. #729
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    Feb 2006
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    Herrick, SD USA
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by jkola404 View Post
    $1.85 for a semi load from a midwest packer, and they picked it up.
    Thanks for the simple straightforward post.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  10. #730
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    dennison MN
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    106

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    you are what you eat!!!!! that is a good price i must say jkola.... we have been selling lots of 20 barrels for 1.77. guess we need to raise the price to 1.85!!!

  11. #731
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    Jan 2005
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    souris, manitoba, canada
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    I have been told, by more than one person that these higher priced loads ( and they are not that numerous yet) are caused by the packer needing
    American honey to make up a certain percentage of his pack , or his contract specifies US or a certain percentage to be US honey.
    Last time I looked at a US honey label can't say I seen that small print of 23 countries of possible country of origin....but then again maybe I just need glasses

  12. #732
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    FRASER VALLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Not to worry Irwin, I have no intention, inclination , not even the genetic makeup to become a chinese honey broker. It is interesting to observe that they always seem to find some back door. CLose one and two open. Sold 25 drums at 1.80/lb

    Jean-Marc

  13. #733
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    Jan 2005
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    souris, manitoba, canada
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    749

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    http://www.ice.gov/news/


    11/29/2011 JACKSONVILLE, FL
    3 arrested in Jacksonville honey dumping scheme
    Three people accused of misclassifying Chinese honey as rice fructose in order to avoid more than $1 million in duties have been indicted in federal court on charges related to smuggling goods into the United States and providing false descriptions of the merchandise. read more

    Looks like we may have to update US foreign honey imports a little, 900 containers over two years, is a least 36M lbs and maybe 44M lbs depending on the amount in each container.Nice business with a nice volume.Wonder who the customers were,are and if their names will be public
    Jean Marc isn't that an old Chinese proverb " God did not close one door without opening another one ,two...."

    One wonders how much counterfeit honey has been missed over the years since only 2% of all food imports into the USA are ever taken a good look at to confirm what they say they are
    Last edited by irwin harlton; 11-30-2011 at 05:53 PM. Reason: info added

  14. #734
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    souris, manitoba, canada
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    from http://skamberg.com/

    December 2011

    Most raw honey prices have stabilized somewhat while Europe tries to resolve the GMO pollen in honey issue that has stalled their raw honey buying in the world market. This has allowed more foreign honey to enter the U.S. market at more stable prices. Europe has the highest per capita honey consumption in the world, so while European honey buying has been sluggish, we do expect them to start buying more aggressively in the next few months. This will probably happen when most of the new South American honey crop comes in next February into March. At that time, competition for this honey between the U.S. and Europe will probably firm up prices. Depending on the size of the South America crop, demand for this honey may not be as strong as in the last several years. With the Euro weakening, the U.S. should be in a better position to compete for this honey at more stable prices. If South America has a good honey crop, followed by good crops in Asia and North America next summer, we may actually see raw honey prices start to soften for the first time in several years. There are a lot of if's involved here, but the potential for softer raw honey prices is the best we have seen in a long time.

    Meanwhile, the U.S honey crop was very poor this year. We don't have the final volume numbers yet, but the 2011 honey crop could be the 2nd poorest in U. S history behind the 149 million lb. crop in 2009. Even with the poor U.S. honey crop, the influx of foreign honey at more stable prices has helped to stabilize U.S. honey prices.

  15. #735
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Faulkner Manitoba, Canada
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    1,696

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    odem called looking for honey...offered $1.50/lb for our honey...never been called before. Kinda cool

  16. #736
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    26,211

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    I hope you called them back and said, "How about $2.00?"
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  17. #737
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    Jan 2005
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    souris, manitoba, canada
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    749

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Odem is beating the bushes ,looking for the beekeeper who has to sell,Odem's prices this fall went from 1.47 to 1.43 to 1.50.Odem has been importing honey from India into the US,Odem's CEO is also the vice chairman of True Source Honey...sorta conflicting interests there, but what do I know.
    Odem's packer customers must be paying a big bonus to round up as much of this cheap honey as possible or possibly the company is storing it on speculation.Packers would rather deal with one broker and purchase10-20 loads over a period of time rather than phoning 50 beekeepers, and or purchase from 10 beekeepers.Packers by dealing with a broker remain relatively undetected in the marketplace, only the broker knows they are buying or need honey

  18. #738
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
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    4,241

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by irwin harlton View Post
    from http://skamberg.com/

    If South America has a good honey crop, followed by good crops in Asia and North America next summer, we may actually see raw honey prices start to soften for the first time in several years. There are a lot of if's involved here, but the potential for softer raw honey prices is the best we have seen in a long time.
    Huh? So if I might paraphrase: If everyone has a good crop next summer then prices will go down? Wow thanks for the Econ lesson Mr. Skamberg. Perhaps he should explain why he thinks this is anything more than a remote possibility.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  19. #739
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    Jan 2008
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    Faulkner Manitoba, Canada
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    1,696

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    I told them thanks but no thanks. As members of the co-op that is where our honey goes. Had we not been members...probably would have asked him to sweeten the deal so to speak. Alas it was not meant to be.
    Cool to be asked though...was a first for us. As cattle producers, one is never asked. So this was cool

  20. #740
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    Jan 2005
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    souris, manitoba, canada
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    from http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=...a&e=771dfa6e48
    International Honey Market Update


    by RON PHIPPS
    President, CPNA International Ltd.
    Co-Chairman, Committee for the Promotion of Honey and Health

    A sea change has occurred in the American honey market with the recent indictments announced by ICE and Homeland Security for fraudulent entry of Chinese honey into the U.S. without paying the requisite anti-dumping duties. These indictments involve citizens of Taiwan and China, as well as a resident of California. Numerous companies and warehouses of honey are involved.


    While this is the latest in a series of indictments for illicit circumvention of Chinese honey into America, it deals a major blow to the two-tiered market that has haunted and distorted the U.S. honey market for at least 7 years. The reason for the special significance of this indictment resides is the fact that for the first time the source of demand for circumvented honey, that is the packers who buy illicitly entered honey, are referenced.
    Who are the buyers? Is this a big conspiracy between some of the largest packers? 900 containers over two years equals approx 9 percent of last years total market.......going to be interesting to say the least

    A copy of the indictment can be read here http://www.groebfarms.com/Libraries/...11_2.sflb.ashx total barrels listed on document 4544
    Last edited by irwin harlton; 12-02-2011 at 05:51 PM. Reason: info added.. again

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