Bulk honey prices and market outlook

[mnbeekeeper]

if we can all work together and hold our crops as long as possible i think that would help drive the price up for all of us. then when it gets high we all dump it as fast as we can!! it is tough to hold in the fall lots of expenses, trucking, and feed are the 2 i think of most.

[jean-marc]

One reason I sell my honey at this time of the year is I don't have proper storage. I don't produce a whole bunch of honey and the cost of getting a proper set up would definitely be more expensive than the potential gain gotten by say, a 25 cent increase in price 3 months down the road. I get my honey custom extracted and don't really like storing it there.... so out the door it must go. 1.50-1.60 a pound is a relatively good price. It's enough to encourage those who have equipment sitting idle to purchase nucs to restock their deadouts. Those are the dollars that get my attention.

Jean-Marc

[sqkcrk]

if we can all work together and hold our crops as long as possible i think that would help drive the price up for all of us. then when it gets high we all dump it as fast as we can!! it is tough to hold in the fall lots of expenses, trucking, and feed are the 2 i think of most.

I believe that this is called collusion and is illegal.

[slickbrightspear]

farmers have done it in the past and it is not illegal can't remember the name of the farm organization that organized it. I will ask dad and post it later.

[sqkcrk]

I have heard of $1.50/# for honey in buckets and barrels in NY.

[jmgi]

I believe that this is called collusion and is illegal.

I think if it is done the right way you could probably get away with it, like someone just said, the farmers have done it in the past. On the other hand, what keeps the packers from buying cheaper foreign honey instead of buying ours at higher price? Is there some law that keeps the packer somewhat honest? I guess if the packer is going to label their product as having some U.S. honey in it, there is a certain amount they have to buy from us. John

[slickbrightspear]

I asked dad he said it was the NFO that did that in the past the problem was that not everyone would hold as they had bills to pay so it did not work very well.

[sqkcrk]

And I believe that it was called a Farmers Strike. Like when a Dairy Farmer dumps a tank of milk in protest of the price.

Beekeepers will never go for it. We can't even stick together in one National Organization, let alone agree to withold honey from the market. So, let's get real.

[suttonbeeman]

sqkcrk...yep you are right its price fixing...anti trust. BUT tobacco companies have done it for yrs....when we sold tobacco at auction every buyer most of time bid same amount. THe auctioneer had a percentage he went by....every buyer knew when it was his turn and would let you know if you messed up(i did some auctioneering) If company a goes up .05 company b follows....the farmer is the only business that sells for what you give him...I can imagine going in walmart and them selling you merchandise at your best "offer". The farmer has been price fixed by big companies for yrs...and nothing done!

[irwin harlton]

So how does $ 4/lb honey sound,..... got a nice ring to it, .........It comes with $20/gallon diesel fuel and the rest of the hyperinflation in all commodities.............http://www.zerohedge.com/article/gue...on-will-happen

[jean-marc]

$4/lb does have a nice ring to it but currently diesel fuel is slightly over $1/L or put in American that's $4/gallon. Currently honey is $1.5/lb. So to keep honey prices in step with hyperinflation where we would see a 5 fold increase of diesl fuel prices, I would also want a five fold increase in honey prices just to keep in step with the Exxon folks. That would give us $7.5/lb honey. Definitely a way nicer ring to it. Not sure that social order would be maintained at those prices.

Jean-Marc

[The Honey Householder]

Sold melter honey today for $1.50 a lb. only had 3 barrels. Wht. honey selling for $1.85 by the barrel.

[jmgi]

Let's just say that I wouldn't want to see $4/lb. wholesale either because like others have said, cost of everything else would be proportionally higher, and we'd still be complaining. But when the grocery store sells honey at anywhere from $5-$8/lb., I think the producer deserves a bit more right now for their efforts, say $2-$2.50/lb. on a regular basis. JMO. John

[sqkcrk]

And what about when they sell honey at Walmart type prices? Do you think that beekeepers are obliged to send the packers and the retailers some money?

If you aren't making enuf profit, do something more profitable. Like mine gold in Chile. But you'd better own the mine.

[jmgi]

>If you aren't making enuf profit, do something more profitable. Like mine gold in Chile. But you'd better own the mine.[/QUOTE\

I would think that at todays wholesale price from packers, some beeks make a decent profit, others not so good. What's the problem with a few cents more if we can get it? By the way, I do mine gold occasionally, but I'm not the mine owner. John

[sqkcrk]

If we compare data from the past, I wonder what the graph of prices paid for honey by packers and the cost of living would look like. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar curves throughout history.

Prices paid by packers and cost of production pace each other I bet. And the price is and has been just below or just above cost of production, I believe. Just enuf so, so as to keep beekeepers producing honey.

I wonder if some commodities expert could look at this and see the trends?

[irwin harlton]

I don't think cost of production in North America has ever been a big factor in what the packers will pay,in certain years the price has been below what the cost of production was.
The biggest factor or influence is what the cheap imported honey is selling for .
Do you want some cheap stuff.......http://www.deltahoney.com/bulkhoney.htm
I said stuff not honey........maybe wondering why the price is not going up even with a world shortage of white honey........you can't produce it for that price and make any money doing it ,unless your getting 200 - 300 lb crops

[jmgi]

$1.05/lb.? Wouldn't that mean whoever is importing it is actually paying alot less than that per/lb because shipping costs are included in the $1.05 price too? This just isn't right. John

[jean-marc]

John , that price includes all the shipping costs except for the final one. The buyer in the US would have to pay freight from that LA warehouse. That price would also include the warehousing costs in LA. Most of the chinese honey is produced by peasants who live in Canvas tents and migrate throughout the country in an attempt to follow honeyflows. They use the public trains to move their bees around. The public doesn not care for them much as some people get stung while waiting for trains. These beekeepers for the most part are dirt poor, no trucks for these guys. I think then some small time, district wholesaler picks up the honey from these guys. There is probably a regional wholesaler who picks it up from the district wholesaler. Then a national wholesaler who will pick it up from the regional wholesaler. It's probably the last guy who will do the "Doctoring" of the honey. The ultrafiltration or the add the rice syrup part. Then again not all chinese honey will fall in either of those 2 categories. The chinese produce some acacia honey that is top notch. Acacia honey has a wonderful flavour and is white. So if there are no residue issues and no rice syrup then it is a premium honey.

So what's not right here John? The bulk of chinese honey is produced by migrant peasants who are working for handfulls of rice a day. That's the competition. No matter what you or I do we cannot compete with them, unless you want to drastically alter your lifestyle. I for one am quite attached to my house. I got a new truck this year (used one albeit) and really enjoy it. I don't want to give up these things in order to compete with chinese peasants. I'll go back to teaching or drive truck seeing as how I have a few of them.

I don't have any issues with the small time producers of china. I have issues with the "chemists" that doctor the honey. Ultrafiltration takes honey and turns it into some fancy syrup but it isn't honey anymore. Adding rice syrup blending it with honey to avoid tariffs and then still calling it honey I have issues with.

This world market is in a bit of a mess and I for one don't see it going away anytime soon. The chinese are not going away. It seems that those who want to cheat just get a little more clever, or so they think with every barrier that is placed in front of them. Anti dumping tariffs no problem , we'll tranship to a third country and relabel. Antibiotic residues , norproblem , we'll ultrafilter. Shortage of honey in the USA no problem, we'll add a little rice syrup, call it a blend avoid tariffs. Long term, it appears as if the chinese have the upper hand as it looks like all is fair in love and war and selling honey. The US law makers are kinda on our side but the enforcement agencies are really not up to speed.

Irwin: I opened that Delta website. They are selling LA and ELA honey. No white honey for sale. I guess that's why the packs are getting darker on the store shelves.

The only long term solution I see is promoting North American honey. The industry has to support financially these advertisement costs and slowly but surely these efforts will pay off dividends. That or spend efforts promoting North American honey in china. The chinese mistrust their own honey producers. I think they are viewed slighly lower than a used car salesman is in North America. I think they have 5 times the population of the USA so it's big market, that is craving high quality honey. Beemaid the Canadian honey producers coop has made significant inroads selling honey in China. Last I heard they had a 5 year plan and were on track after year 2. That was 2 years ago. Apparently if all went according to plan Canada could not supply enough honey to the chinese market if all went according to the 5 year plan. Any co-op members care to comment about this?

Enough ramblings, gotta get samples for tracheal mites and Nosemae now.

Jean-Marc

[sqkcrk]

$1.05/lb.? Wouldn't that mean whoever is importing it is actually paying alot less than that per/lb because shipping costs are included in the $1.05 price too? This just isn't right. John

Why? Why not? What am I missing in that statement?

Jerry, at Wixson Honey Inc says that he is paying $1.65 to $1.70 for honey in buckets or barrels.