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  1. #301
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    Jan 2005
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    souris, manitoba, canada
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    787

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Heard from a reliable source that a major Canadian buyer has dropped his offering from 1.60 to 1.50............... all part of the game packers play., this will make his 1.60price offering 2 months down the road loOk really good( so he thinks), HE must have got enough at 1.60 to last him awhile and enough to blend into his Argentina honey to lighten it up .Maybe he was getting a little flack from his US packer friends over his higher price offering .I have this feeling that gold is not the only commodity that is going to soar within the next couple of months,white honey is sometimes referred to as liquid gold when in short supply and its definitely in short supply

  2. #302
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    May 2009
    Location
    Central Ontario,Canada
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    141

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by irwin harlton View Post
    Heard from a reliable source that a major Canadian buyer has dropped his offering from 1.60 to 1.50............... all part of the game packers play., this will make his 1.60price offering 2 months down the road loOk really good( so he thinks), HE must have got enough at 1.60 to last him awhile and enough to blend into his Argentina honey to lighten it up .Maybe he was getting a little flack from his US packer friends over his higher price offering .I have this feeling that gold is not the only commodity that is going to soar within the next couple of months,white honey is sometimes referred to as liquid gold when in short supply and its definitely in short supply
    Irwin, you western folks need to get a warehouse in Ontario. There is a good demand for honey among smaller beekeepers here. At 5-20 barrels at a time it is selling for $1.80 lb CASH!

  3. #303
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    Jan 2005
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    FRASER VALLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA
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    1,349

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    123456:

    I have honey, don't need a warehouse , just need a truck to put it on and a check, it's really that simple.

    Jean-Marc

  4. #304
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Central Ontario,Canada
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    141

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by jean-marc View Post
    123456:

    I have honey, don't need a warehouse , just need a truck to put it on and a check, it's really that simple.

    Jean-Marc
    I know a couple of dozen guys that move about 50 barrels a year but they are not beekeepers. None of them buy it by the truckload and a 'check' is a dirty word.

  5. #305
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Tamworth, NSW Australia
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    259

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Honey Packers are not 'bad' people. They are having as much trouble making a living out of honey as we are. They just look bad to us because they are next up line and are the ones paying us.

    The best and most workable reason why they put the price back down is that they know as well as we do that putting the price up will not produce any more honey, not in the short term. And if your bank was threatening to foreclose on you, would you be worrying about the long term state of the industry?

    If they were really 'bad' people, we could get rid of them all (perhaps overnight), by simply refusing to sell them any honey for twelve months. The reality is, however, that the bank is breathing down our neck too, so we play the game. The glucose makers will do well filling in where we leave off, assuming they can get some wheat.

    It is you guys who bother to market your own honey who are winning. The convenience of sending it all off on one truck to one packer is fatally habit forming, and those who persist with that one pay the price in the long term. Honey prices are great, at the retail level and the small wholesale level too.

    There is not enough honey in the whole world to warrant anyone doing big advertising, promoting and really selling honey. There hasn't been enough to warrant that for maybe 30 years or more. It is only the public who can (AND ARE NOW) pushing the price up, so we the producers need to promote our own product in our own locality. We do that part better than anyone else, anyway, as the public love a good bee story.

    All the people between us and the consumer in the supply chain will never promote honey, nor will they gain anything by trying to push the price up. They only eke out a living by increasing their volume, which is pretty hard to do these days (with real honey, anyway). However, they will all come on line as quick as a spreadsheet recalculates its bottom line once the demand is in place and the supply can match it.

    Inflation being what it is, any product must keep pace with it or perish. Honey has had its moments to surge ahead and catch up with inflation and is overdue for another one. Inflation being what it is (again), makes it doubly hard, however, to actually keep up, as like osteoporosis, inflation eats away at the very bones of our civilizations until they collapse.

    There are always those who contentedly cry "GREED" when we mention pushing the price up, and good luck to them. If they have supplemental income, a working wife or a good inheritance coming, they are OK. But to get more honey produced we need to consider the young fellow, with a pregnant wife, no farm, no truck, no hope. If he cannot get a few beehives and start capitalising a business, then the industry dies and civilization as we know it goes down with him.

    So we must fight to keep pace (as much as humanly possible) with the constant failings of our currency. This present shortage is the best opportunity we have had for 30 or forty years to make that work. If we don't push up our prices now, who can say when again the opportunity will present itself?

    The bee underpins the very foundations of our civilization. If saving the whale can attract billions of dollars, there must be plenty out there too for the bees. I want my part of it, and you deserve your part of it too. But as long as we are happy to lie down and die silently, there are plenty of others waiting to take over the microphone.

    So we can change our perspective on honey packers by becoming one ourselves!

    What are they doing about the price of honey? What are YOU doing about the price of honey? You had it first!

    Cheers,

    JohnS

  6. #306
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Corryton, Tennessee, USA
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    578

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    I think we do our own selves in by not setting our own prices a little higher. We have a quality product, and we should treat it as such.

  7. #307
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    Jan 2005
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    FRASER VALLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA
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    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    123456:

    Whether the fellows you know purchase a truckload at a time or not is unimportant. Somehow it's gotta get to them, hence trucks. If they have a hard time paying for honey or think check is a dirty word, I now understand why they have a hard time sourcing honey.

    Jean-Marc

  8. #308
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    Jan 2006
    Location
    Tamworth, NSW Australia
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    259

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Uh, um, oooo.
    Jean-Marc, check is a dirty word to the vendors, not the buyers.

    How much gold did you buy yesterday and pay for it with a check? Not much, I'll bet.

    The SgtMaj has it right. We shoot ourselves in the foot when we let other people tell us what our very worthy product is worth.

    Maybe all North American beekeepers are young people, and I show my age by remembering some things of yesteryear, but here in Australia, lots of beekeepers got stung when a honey buyer went bust.

    In God we Trust. All others: please pay cash.

    When I part with real honey, I want real money in return. Why should that be considered immoral?

    Cheers,

    JohnS

  9. #309
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Sao Paulo, Brazil
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    John,

    We have the same situation all over the world, it belongs to the nature of business. As far as I know the packers are very much necessary elements of the chain, they manage different levels of risks which beekeepers or coops would not be able to sleep with. Also, they have the capability of regulating the market as long as they are able to blend different types of honeys from different countries in order to fulfill the needs both of the retailers and industrial users all over the year. The industry faces a big issue with the "glucose" makers who are flooding America with a product that everybody knows comes out from assembly lines, not from hives. This is what is disturbing the whole market ALL OVER THE WORLD, not only America. On the top of this we have the economic crisis and the consequent apreciation of the dollar. Thus, we are living in a not friendly world and it is normal people to get more defensive and bitter. During difficult times the concept of supply chain is naturally more questioned but, from my point of view, should be more protected and improved. Our common enemy, the glucose guys, are as strong as the russian winter. We all may take years to overcome this issue as we will need support and coordinated efforts from different governments and authorities. About the formation of prices I have to say there is only one type of price I know, the doable price. There is no expensive nor cheap honey, there is the honey that you can sell or not in a given moment. If all beekeepers in North America decided to not sell anything to any packer during one year, the price of honey would skyrocket all over the world. This would make beekeeping more and more attractive for brazilians, uruguayans, chileans, viets, indian, aussie, mexican, kiwis, etc. In one or two years the production of honeys in other countries would be greatly increased and prices would then start to accomodate at lower levels. This is the history of the brazilian honey exports. Until 2002 we were not exporting significant volumes. It was the chinese crisis (when chinese honey was banned in EU) that gave the external push up to the business. In 2001 I was happy selling light amber @ USD 0.45/lb and had to fight to get buyers. Because China's problem, pricing then move up to USD 1.20/lb. The excellent price of honey motivated increase of production not only in Brazil but also in India, Vietnam, Chile, etc. As a result we had the price collapse in 2005-2006. I sold brazilian light amber in 2006 as low as USD 0.43/lb. In 2009 brazil will be the biggest foreign source of honeys to USA. It is the market !!!
    The good thing for less developed countries like Brazil and Vietnam is that the governments realized that beekeeping can be a good tool for generating income in poor rural areas. So, presently there are official programs dedicated to educate and form beekeepers and improve thye quality and the yield of the hives. In other words, these countries are now established as important honey players and will gain share as the time goes. Argentina will be always an important player but you can be sure they will not be the largest exporters in very few years. By cultural reasons latin american people see honey much more as a medicine than as a food, the per capita consumption in Brazil is less than 100 gr. So there is a huge market to be explored in Brazil, Argentina and all countries in South and Central America ! By the way, we welcome foreign investors !

    Cheers from the honey broker/

  10. #310
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Central Ontario,Canada
    Posts
    141

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by jean-marc View Post
    123456:

    Whether the fellows you know purchase a truckload at a time or not is unimportant. Somehow it's gotta get to them, hence trucks. If they have a hard time paying for honey or think check is a dirty word, I now understand why they have a hard time sourcing honey.

    Jean-Marc
    Who said they have a hard time sourcing honey? In fact they are much sought after by producers.

  11. #311
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    FRASER VALLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA
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    1,349

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    123456:

    Just assumed that if you suggest to Irwin to purchase a warehouse down east that it was perhaps because those potential buyers were having difficulties sourcing honey. Apparently not.

    Jean-Marc

  12. #312
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Central Ontario,Canada
    Posts
    141

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    John Smith;

    'Check' is a dirty word for all parties involved, as is receipt. There ia a LOT of honey bought and sold that doesn't show up in statistics. As you pointed out, depending on packers is a fools game. Lots of smiles in 04' when they were paying $2.30, lots of tears in 05' when they were paying $0.85.

    As long as producers sit and wait for their phone to ring, things won't change. Sadly we're a year or two away from $0.85 honey again.

  13. #313
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Central Ontario,Canada
    Posts
    141

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by jean-marc View Post
    123456:

    Just assumed that if you suggest to Irwin to purchase a warehouse down east that it was perhaps because those potential buyers were having difficulties sourcing honey. Apparently not.

    Jean-Marc
    Just pointing out a possible marketing approach for larger producers. Billy Bee will always sell a barrel or 10 or 20.

  14. #314
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    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
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    787

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    http://skamberg.com/



    Honey Update:

    November 2009

    Raw honey prices are still very firm. A smaller than expected USA crop, coupled with a lack of surplus raw honey in the world market have kept prices strong. Some available raw honey in the world market is being held for better pricing. At the same time, demand has been very strong from the consumer level through the food service and industrial levels. U.S. packers also struggle to compete for honey on the world market with the US weaker dollar versus other world currencies.

    U.S.A. - The California raw honey crop was very poor, with continued drought in that state. Raw honey from the Southern part of the U.S., which produces much of the nations Light Amber honey, was also short. Very cool, wet conditions in the Upper Midwest (which produces most of the honey in the U.S.) reduced the crop substantially. The final 2009 crop numbers are not in, but some have projections indicated at 15% below last year's crop of 161 million lbs.

    Canada - The weather was also very cool and wet in Canada. Their crop will be comparable to the U.S. in diminished production. Canadian honey prices usually parallel U.S. prices and are actually higher so far this year.

    South America - Projections for the Argentina raw honey crop are dismal as drought continues to be a factor. Brazil, which produces almost year round, should be in better shape, but as Europe competes more and more for that honey, those prices remain strong.

    India - India's crop is just starting to come in, and offerings from there are few. Demand for this honey will be high. Conditions are favorable for a good crop, but competition will be heavy and prices will be strong.

  15. #315
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    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
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    787

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    No where does the above commentator talk about rising prices
    Prices are"firm" and "strong".......I hate to admit he's right but I have to agree with him
    However he is a large food broker closely tied to one of the largest US packers, Sue
    I think his US honey crop estimation is a little high, but maybe Kim Flottum's is a little low.

    "Some available raw honey in the world market is being held for better pricing. " I would say a lot of honey is being held off in anticipation of better than current prices.The packers know this.

    Firm and strong prices at www.marketnews.usda.gov/portal/fv Phone: 202-720- 2175 FAX: 202-720-0547
    www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/fvmhoney.pdf,........ No, I call it low balling the market

  16. #316
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lancaster, Ky. / Frostproof Fl.
    Posts
    992

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Now that you've mentioned Sue I have never ever been able to figure out why anyone would be a member of sue! Whats the benefits? You call and a truck comes to pick up your honey and leaves empty barrels. whats the down side? well where do we start....First off they retain 10%(if my memory is right)of your crop for 10 years for operating capitol. ( THis may have changed as I havent checked in 8 yrs)So If you produce 100 barrels of honey after ten years sue has 100 barrels of you honey(100k$$) that you could use to buy equipment, pay off debt, send your kids to collage or draw interest on. Now I realize interest rates are low now but historically will cost you 8-12 % for operating loan. Then you get paid X% on delivery, some more 60 or 90 days later and the balance use to be about a year. So a year later you got your money less 10%. So lets compare apples to apples. Packer "A" pays you in 30 days....sue pays over a long period of time less 10 %. When interest was at 8 percent back about 8 yrs ago I figured YOU were 10 cents a lb in the hole if you were a coop member.
    Now for the biggie WHY on earth would a growers COOP import honey from CHINA? How do you support US producers doing that? If you read the articles in honey laundering in the seattle times(google seattle times honey laundering) Sue denied they imported honey from china....then admitted when he traced a container from china to sue that they "sometimes" found chlorophenicol....a give away as to chinese honey. If he (reporter) could figure out where the honey came from dont you think any packer could if he wanted to? According to my sources there were numerous comtainers of chinese honey sitting at Jacksonville port a few months ago headed for Sioux City Iowa. I dont know what packer but I do know of only one there to my knowledge! When a grower coop buys this crap..well why would you want to be a member? I think we need a new coop!!

  17. #317
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,620

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Never have been a Sioux member but our family has been years ago. We got out for many of the reasons that you mentioned. As far as importing honey particularly honey of questionable quality the reasons are quite simple, they have a market for it and it improves the bottom line of the coop .......... at least in the short term. I know that power has always tended to reside with a few there but all members should not be afraid to speak up and let their voices be heard, after all it is a member owned cooperative.
    I will throw out one more little caveat that you may or may not have considered. Your retains (that they hold interest free) represent your stake of ownership in the company, a company that has considerable assets. In this day and age of fewer and bigger it is hardly out of the realm of possibility that a large food conglomerate with a large distribution network and efficiencies of scale far beyond what Sioux can do as a stand alone company could make an offer that can't be refused. In that case what would a 1% stake in a say $100 million dollar sale (Burt's Bees, I believe, sold for 180 million) be worth hmmmmmm.

  18. #318
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    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    787

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Everything in this world seems to have its place,..... even Sue selling Cheap Chinese honey to increase the bottom line for its members.It would have to have been unadulterated,not contain antibiotics( They test) and would or will be cheap, I heard such a commodity exists but is rare
    Good old Sue and Beemaid here in Canada sometimes have a hard time retaining their membership when prices soar and the open market gets crazy ( occurs once every 13 decades or less) These price peaks are relatively short lived and members flock back to the security of the co op........can't say I blame them for the risks are high.This trade seems to have more than its fair share of crooks , but security always comes with a price.

    Someone, John Smith I think from Australia, also pointed out in the Skamburg blurb that the wording" lack of surplus raw honey" was used instead of shortage. Shortage entails rising or higher prices usually.....they certainly don't want to convey that concept , it just might get some world producers thinking about what their product is worth when there is very little to be had

  19. #319
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    LA, CA, USA
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    why slander the hand that feeds irwin sioux is the largest most respectable packer in the world....just because doemstic honey supply is 30% higher in price then imports there has to be something wrong. I have been in manufacturing overseas in many different industries and its pretty similar across the board. Cheaper labor = cheaper prices. Gasoline in the sadui arabian peninsula is under a dollar a gallon and here in NA its almost $3.50 why???

  20. #320
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lancaster, Ky. / Frostproof Fl.
    Posts
    992

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Two weeks ago pepper honey in fl offer from a florida packer was .90. This week 1.35. Pepper is not I repeat NOT a bottling honey!

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