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  1. #221
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    FRASER VALLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA
    Posts
    1,347

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    I agree with you Irwin on the point of being paid. At the end of the day as a producer you need to get paid. I don't belong to a Co-op , don't really need to. I sell most of my honey locally to other smaller beekeepers. I like selling locally too, that way I have a better feel for what is happening in the local market. If there is payment problem it's a maximum 1 hour truck drive. We get top dollar for local honey. Any prairie honey we produce is sold locally and we may not get top dollar but we do get paid.

    Jean-Marc

  2. #222
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lancaster, Ky. / Frostproof Fl.
    Posts
    986

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    BUD Im getting worried....we agree on something!!! lol we need to go drink a cold beer!
    Like the above post Sue was a great idea when it started but like government is it soon didnt benefit the people(members). Back in 2001 sue was selling bears to Kroger for 83 cents a bear(9.80 cs of 12)I caused a big flap when I was at the Wisconsin meeting and Mr Dienielt(sp) asked me why I thought the price of honey was dropping so much. I gave the sue payment ect and told the price they were selling bears for..sue's faces got red, I mean really red and they said I didnt have my figures right. I was representing the honey board at the meeting and I took off my honey board hat, my abf director hat and spoke as my personal opinion. I had calls from the honey board chairmen along with several others as sue was hot.. Just a couple of years ago at the Louisville meeting they admitted to me int he hallway I was right but didnt want anyone to know they were undercutting the market! They were trying to increase their market share. What a mess! Besides the above post of selling honey as honey and not as varietal source you know why they are paying 1.30....what a joke!

  3. #223
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Pigeon Falls, WI
    Posts
    2,528

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    All of us who sell to packers could put a stop to the nonpayment/late payment issue by demanding money in hand before/at delivery. After they recieve the samples from us to do their testing they know what they are getting. Who were the unwise beeks that ever allowed the 30-60-90 day later pymt to start anyways. When I first started selling to packers I was just appauled to be told that pymt was in 60 days. I told them I was not a bank and they said that is how it is, so needing to sell my product I did and 65 days later I had to make a reminder call. We are in sense a "union without contract". We as beeks are the ones that produce the "bread and butter" for the packers. It's time they treat us that way. Call every packer you know and ask them to send you $50,000 and you will send them the honey in 60 days. They will laugh at you. Shouldn't we give them the same respect they give us? Oh, buy the way, still getting $1.65 in drums and pails(they provide pails 4 gal. or larger) raw straight from holding tank unfiltered cash in hand. Anyone that questioned the price was told that is what it is and they paid with no more arguement. Now what to do with the other 90% of crop left. Borrow it interest free?

  4. #224
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Pigeon Falls, WI
    Posts
    2,528

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Why is the highest paid for "white" honey in U.S.A. for July from Argentina?

    http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/fvmhoney.pdf

  5. #225
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lancaster, Ky. / Frostproof Fl.
    Posts
    986

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    I dont sell on credit. When I sell to a packer(orange blossom or bakery honey, I bottle some orange and all my other honey)I get paid at delivery or 1/2 at delivery and 1/2 in 14-30 days or they dont get it!

  6. #226
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Tamworth, NSW Australia
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Go down to your nearest coin shop and try to buy a gold coin on 30 day account! No, that is not the way it works with gold. You put up your money and you get the gold.

    Gold isn't even medicine, much less food. Honey is all three. It is edible gold.

    America must be about the best place in the world right now to buy honey, mostly because no one ever puts up his offering price until after all the eager beavers have sold theirs.

    Now you know why the price spiked upwards so high a few years ago. Got us all excited, so we bought new trucks and everything else thinking we were rich. Now we have to sell honey as soon as we get it to make our monthly payments.

    Imported honey is much easier to pay more for than local honey. It is a very 'quiet' industry, that importing business. What they pay foreigners is usually kept out of the local bee news. Packers and customers alike will pay what ever they have to, if only beekeepers knew how to value their own product. Then, of course, we have the goody goodies who think it is a crime to ask for profitable prices. Those very pious types usually buy shares in banks. ............. honorable and respected businesses, aye?

    Sioux is probably so strapped for liquidity they can hardly pay for what little honey they are getting and no sympathy is likely to come their way from their bankers! So try doing some macro sums on how much money would be lost if one local shop defaults on a few cases of honey and compare that to how much would be lost if a major packer went belly up. People bought shares in Enron because it was so big it couldn't fail. Too many eggs in one basket is not recommended.

    Inflate or perish!

    Cheers,

    JohnS

  7. #227
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    770

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    http://www.honey.com/honeyindustry/s...4countries.htm

    average price for May 1.41

    average price for june 1.27

    price paid for Chinese IN JUNE .98

    It was my understanding that the duties, import tax, surcharges on Chinese honey would make it uncompetitive, or well above the current market prices........ so did China drop their prices some more or is this the mislabeled honey called syrup?
    Last edited by irwin harlton; 08-27-2009 at 09:07 PM. Reason: INFO ADDED

  8. #228
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    770

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Prices rise in Argentina?

    No el nina rains yet



    Daily prices payd to the producer, per kilogram per drum, export quality


    http://www.apitrack.com/noticias/aaa...el_es_open.htm

  9. #229
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,269

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Its hard to compaire producer cooperative returns to open market return.
    One hand we are expecting to deliver our crop in return of the yearly average price paid for the crop, and the other hand we deliver on spot pricing and reactionary marketing.
    Both have their advantages and disadvantages, both will bring in more than the other some years.

    When it comes down to me and my marketing choice,
    Its a matter of risk management
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  10. #230
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    770

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    " Its hard to compaire producer cooperative returns to open market return."

    Would be like comparing apples and oranges, both fruit , honey is honey weather its in a co-op drum or not.... its all in the marketing, it all ends up on the store shelf or in some food as a ingredient.The cost of a sure market and a sure payment are high.
    I was a co-op member in the early 70's, as was my father before me.No doubt things have changed , nice to see Bee maid selling a liquid ELA or golden honey on the shelf, they seem to have problems back then marketing that colour when I was a member and making a decent return on it, like their return on colured honey was less than 1/2 the return on white.Meanwhile BILLY BUZZ was paying one price for all colours and it was better than the co-ops total final payment on white honey


    It was once pointed out to me and my other free market friends that without Beemaid free marketing of honey would be alot tougher..... meaning more competition in this market and more pawns for the packers to work over. Bee maid takes a big wad of honey out of the Canadian market, they have also been know to dump honey into the bulk market...... for what ever reason, falling prices , cash flow problems, or just being nice to their US friends

    Don't really like to bash the co ops too hard , they are hard at work serving their members and also me.......... The less honey on the open market the better I like it

    There is more than supply and demand at play in this honey market. Historically the longer a commodity is depressed in price the higher it will rise when the manipulation ends. This is due to the fact that increased production requires a rising price to provide incentive for the producer.
    Last edited by irwin harlton; 09-04-2009 at 10:15 PM. Reason: info added

  11. #231
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,269

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    >>Bee maid takes a big wad of honey out of the Canadian market, they have also been know to dump honey into the bulk market...... for what ever reason, falling prices , cash flow problems, or just being nice to their US friends

    I dont know about that,
    In BeeMaids case its a marketing decision made by one organization,
    otherwise it would be a marketing decision made by many producers
    both selling it at the same price. Call it dumping or marketing?
    China dumps,

    >>Historically the longer a commodity is depressed in price the higher it will rise when the manipulation ends

    yup, that still is a trader theory
    but look at the commodity markets right now
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  12. #232
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Tamworth, NSW Australia
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    It appears to me that some of us believe what is detailed in official reports while others of us look at the obvious activity and deduce for ourselves just what is really going on.

    There is some truth in everything (otherwise it could hardly exist) but seeing the official 'news release' or 'annual report' as truth usually takes someone pure in heart and worthy of their position.

    Needless to say, myriad conclusions are reached by those who nut it out for themselves, leading to considerable confusion. Those who accept it at face value all tend to agree. Hence we have collectivist and individualist, the former do best in good times, the latter do best in bad.

    Cheers,

    JohnS

  13. #233
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Ohio
    Posts
    855

    Cool Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    In 30+ years of honey production this has been the crazies in honey sales. In past years I held back a few semi loads and the big packers end up with it. This year with the big shortage in the area, the beekeepers help me out by buying those loads up. So to the big packers that keep quoting low prices. Maybe next year, but after selling to the beekeepers I would have to say go luck. It's always nice to see the little guy make it in this doggy-doggy world of business.
    I want to thank all those that made my year and hope to see you back next year.
    Nothing sold for under $1.65 a pound this year. My crop came up 18% short of last years crop.
    Still an awesome year!!!
    Thanks,
    o/o Ron Householder

  14. #234
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,269

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    The word is Argentina is planting a record soybean crop, pushing aside wheat and canola acreages,
    Also reports of very cool winter, with little precipitation until just recently.
    Farmers are delayed on planting due to the dryness, but more so by the terrible economic conditons, avaliable credit.

    Not sure how this effects the honey prices right now, but certainly looks like there will be a continued trend towards darker smaller Argentina honey crop,

    Looks like this power house of a food producer is going to be held on the sidelines for another season,
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  15. #235
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,737

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Tasted some honey that was offered for 1.45 dockside. Yuch!!!! tasted like the stuff in the portion packs at fast food places. Tasted like dark honey , but was light colored. How could that be?????? CLAIMED to be from Thailand. Why would ANYONE put their name on a label with this product inside? Is the public that miss informed about what REAL honey tastes like?


    Roland

  16. #236
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Pigeon Falls, WI
    Posts
    2,528

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Is the public that miss informed about what REAL honey tastes like?
    Yes they are! All the health hype on how healthy honey is so people that know nothing about real honey go to the local supermarket chain and buy the cheapest honey because they think honey is honey. They go home, wake the next morning to try their healthy honey, open the bottle of their over processed "honey", put it on their toast and think gross. Never to buy it again. The more we as beekeepers inform our local public on the honey issue the better off we are. Free samples, your great fresh honey and bottles of honey from where ever side by side, the public will decide and be enlightened.

    Imported honey dockside for $1.45 and the packers buying(offering) from us for less. Don't allow them to do it!

  17. #237
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Tamworth, NSW Australia
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    Don't let them do it! Well Said Roland.

    BEEKEEPERS determine the price of honey.

    I know, I know. You are all screaming at me now. We are helpless slaves, you are thinking. THEY set the price and we have no option but to accept it.

    WRONG. You had it first, you are in control of it.......... until............?

    They (whoever that might be) will be quite happy to pay any price right down to nothing if they can find a beekeeper willing to accept it. Beekeepers determing the price by accepting the price offered and completing the sale. This phenomenon is not necessarily confined to large packers or international exporters either. Its the same with your neighbor next door and your work pals, your brother-in-law and your lawyer............ it makes no difference.

    They would ALL rather get it for nothing if we are silly enough to part with it at that price.

    So if you are happy with sixpence a pound, or a dollar. That will be the price.

    Cheers and happy haggling!

    JohnS

  18. #238
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    souris, manitoba, canada
    Posts
    770

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    So what should the price of bulk honey be?

    Currently a eastern Canadian packer is offering 1.55 Can, freight paid , drums lost.Do not think he will get a whole lot at this price
    Don't know what Odem is offering, anyone know?

    Cost of production is considerably higher in Canada than in the the US, but can be offset sometimes by the higher yield.

    USA offers seem to be stuck around the 1.40 - 1,45 and the Canadian dollar seems to gaining ground daily.
    If the so called shortage materializes what should a producer have in mind for a price?

    This spring loads in Canada sold for 1.75 and 1.80... less than a dozen loads sold .

    AHPA have any target price in mind?Last year AHPA was saying 1.55, things have changed considerably from last fall.

    Heard the hottest market right now is Asia-Japan paying well above current US prices

  19. #239
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    6,269

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    More news from Argentina,
    Talking of an El Nino ocean current providing more moisture in the future, This has commodity trading looking at bigger soybean crop ontop of the record breaking plantings ,
    Perhaps the increased amount of precip will promote a better honey crop down south.

    this news comes in direct contrast to what has been commented on previously,

    Commodity futures are looking at this seriously, should the honey market?
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  20. #240
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Hattiesburg, MS
    Posts
    47

    Default Re: Bulk honey prices and market outlook

    If the commodity markets did look at honey more seriously, what price would we think is appropriate for white or light amber? I will take a stab at the prices and say, $1.90 and $1.75 per pound, respectively?

    The US Dollar has decreased from about $90.00 (US Dollar index) in March, 2009 to a price of $76.25 today. This represents a price decrease (inflation, if you will) of 18% which should translate into a price increase for honey of the same amount. This doesn't even incorporate the apparent shortage of honey worldwide...

    I bet we could see $2.00 per pound of white honey in the US in the next 12 months. Of course, it could be back at $1.00 per pound also if the packers have their way...

    I don't really have a clue about these things as I am a sideliner... but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

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