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Bulk honey prices and market outlook

824K views 1K replies 169 participants last post by  The Honey Householder 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Deflation , then inflation and currently a whole bunch of de-leaverageing going on in this crazy economy, which I hear from the majority with crystal balls, that is only going to get worse as a recession or a depression .
Heard some packers had dropped their offering prices......... hadn't noticed any downward pricing going on the store shelf's,to the contrary , prices were actually going up there.
A Canadian honey broker recently had a offer out for 1.50 Canadian,picked up in your yard, drums lost , for 10 loads, alot of phone calls later the order was filled and she is working on another order for the same price,I hear. Canadian dollar was trading around 1.25 US. That may be GOOD PRICE at present market conditions........ but I doubt it.I don't think supply and demand have entered the big picture yet.Other Current Canadian offers were 1.40. UK honey is selling at up to £2.30 per pound in BULK- source Bee -L.
Maybe that supply and demand won't enter the pic if the packers get there way.

I must remind myself that honey is not one of those necessity foods like bread and milk and that I don't need to be quite as greedy as some of those wall street folks
 
#245 ·
Talked to Odem Internatioal this a.m. Elyse said there seems to be a unlimited supply of Chinese funny honey, ultrafiltered,the stuff that has the antibiotic's removed, its blended or adultrated with rice syrup, or some unknown ,untraceable sugar( German labs looking for what it is)
This stuff is actually a packers dream, 75-80 /lb and can be blended into any honey for the result you want. Sometimes a little good honey is added by the Chinese to bring up the quality, pollen count.(Some packer or packers making alot of money here)

She said without this on the market current world prices would be approaching 2.00/lb.......there is that much of a shortage, supplies are tight

Odem is currently offering 1.60Can for 25mm or better
 
#247 · (Edited)
The cheapest place to buy white honey in the past 12 months ( with the exception of Chinese honey ) has been in the USA.There is tremendous pressure to keep this market of raw product low priced, weather it be the poor economy,or cheap Chinese honey.There is a world shortage of white honey and the price will continue to move upward.It is supply and demand and honey sales are holding up well from what I hear.

http://honey.com/honeyindustry/stats/PriceRetail.htm AND http://honey.com/honeyindustry/stats/PriceWholesale.htm tell part of the story
 
#248 ·
I am a growing beek and am in touch with several LARGE beeks who do not have the time to get on here; anyways the one packs in barrels only, I think and he is getting $1.80 a pound FOB at his house and he states it is going out as fast as he can extract. This man does not embelish either, very honest. Although his buyers are crying about the price they ARE paying it.

Another one I know has developed over the last 30 years a large market for buckets. I know for a fact everything he does goes into buckets. This year did almost 2500 pails and he is getting $110 as of last week and it is selling fairly briskly at that price too. He just raised his price up $10 up from a $100.

AND no I do not know who they are selling to either.
 
#249 ·
I've never sold honey like I did this year. I've got to thanks all those that bought from me this year. It's just to bad I only produce 49 ton this year. Last year at this time I still had 30 ton in inventory. All I have left is 2800 pounds in buckets. I sold all of my honey for $1.65-1.85. Take that back I just sold my 3 barrels of melter honey for $1.35 a pound. My buyers don't like the price but with 48 ton out the door and still getting calls. I just think there is not enough US honey for the smaller packers this year. Sorry but it is the producer that is setting the price this year. This bigger packers will just have to buy that good out foreign honey blend or what ever they call it now at days. The big packers low balled me all season and it all GONE. I know I'm only 2 1/2 semi load producer, but if we all are selling the same way this year. That has got to hurt.:doh: As a second generation honey producer it FEELS GOOD!!!

If the honey producers can't make a living, and goes out of business. How is the packer going to get honey to sell. This is what has been going on for years. Less and less producers and then a bad year and the price goes sky high. If there is any US honey left by Chirstmas it will be over $2.00 a pound in the barrel.
 
#253 ·
I don't know about other parts of the world but for us personally here in New Zealand we struggle to get a fair price for every aspect of our beekeeping income from pollination to propolis to honey. I feel that as beekeepers we are undervalued and our industry is not taken seriously.
I get fedup with working so hard to turn around and sell honey at $4 a kilo and know that it's being shipped and onsold at 4-5 times that price.
here in new zealand we have a huge amount of food safety regulations to adhere too and until recently have been able to produce honey with no chemicals in the hive at all with the arrival of varroa we now have to treat with miticide. We dont treat for AFB the hives are destroyed, we can't sell honey thats been in supers treated with PDB so it's not used. The honey is as good as you can get it and yet the packers will not give you a fair price for it. Makes me so mad
 
#255 ·
>The honey industry need to address 2 key issues. One being adulteration. ......The other issue is the one of residues

I completely agree.
Our honey traded on the open market will fetch its fair price.
but our honey right now isnt trading against itself, but rather adulterated honey and blends.
The consumer has to be able to recognize the difference between the honey they are buying and the honey they think they are buying.
If the consumer is able to recognize the difference, our honey will again trade against itself again
 
#256 ·
I suspect the Chloramphenicol to be more to do with the trade war than with any concerns for public health. Here are some of the questions I wrestle with and (my own) trial answers:

How does it come about that the big users of Chloramphenicol (China and Argentina) are also the largest exporters of honey? Is Chloramphenicol more effective than Western Antibiotics? Is it about the honey or is this an effort to protect the market from cheap Chinese antibiotic competition.

If the Chinese and the Argentineans are consuming all this poison, why aren’t their people dying like flies from cancer? What country has the most cancer? It wouldn’t be one on the North American Continent, now would it?

Carcinogens............... wow! what a powerful word. Salt is a carcinogen! Oxygen is a killer! People drown in water! Now Tamiflu, that great product we want to make compulsory for folk suffering from Swine Flu Fear, it wouldn’t be a carcinogen, .................. unless, of course one was reading the Beijing Newspapers.

OK, so I suspect China could be seen as a major competitor of Western Medicine Companies. Give any laboratory in the Western Bloc countries enough funding and they could find valid (to their minds and in their language only) reasons to reject any Chinese medicine. I also suspect any lab in China could do the same with Western Medicines.

Governments have shown a distinct tendency to ignore any dilution of honey with cheap manufactured syrups, as they know the masses must be fed, and they sure don’t want food prices to rise. But let someone threaten the Pharmaceutical Industries, and governments worldwide will pounce on the offenders with or without legal justification and authority to do so.

Honey is also a threat to these massive and powerful industries, so if we can kill two birds with one stone, what a win - win scoop that would be.

Hence, it follows that if we beekeepers want to survive, we need to quit trying to compete with supermarket honey and start promoting REAL honey, our own honey; honey from flowers and charge the customer enough to make it worth our time. Smart honey packers will do the same. Britain's beekeepers woke up to this one maybe thirty years ago. They get premium prices for local honey BUT NOT BY MARKETING IT THROUGH SUPERMARKETS!

The simple fact that we fail to dignify honey and promote it to its proper level of respect in the marketplace will have to be ignored and forgiven, as that is our main weakness and one we are not likely to overcome in the near term.

When honey does receive its proper recognition for the superior health giving qualities it brings us, it will be because the public at large create that change. It seems quite unlikely that beekeepers collectively will have much input into making that wave.
One good honest Doctor (Dr. Ron Fessenden, in his book, “The Honey Revolution”) is more likely to trigger that wave than most of the beekeepers I know. There are some fine exceptions too!

In the mean time, Westerners continue to die from every conceivable malady, too blinded by the sales spin of modern medicine to accept a little help from honey, and this is all good for the economy. But it will not always be this way. The worm is turning.

Good Luck and Long Life!

JohnS
 
#257 ·
Comments?

Jean-Marc

You are right the two biggest problems or challenges facing this industry are adulteration and residues

Adulteration has been around since the beginning , I think, I recall a test of grocery store honey in the early 70's coming up with a very high percentage of honey possibly being adulterated, the tests back then were nowhere as a accurate as we got today.So we can readily detect if honey is adulterated.The same applies to residues.

The USA's biggest problem is there is no clear precise definition of honey, as a food on the shelf

When a problem is found by a "Good" PACKER, the honey is returned to the seller, broker, instead of being destroyed,.... for whatever reason.... could it be the cost of destroying this product ? OR JUST easier to let someone else pack it and take the risk,( seems low) whatever the reason it just adds to the amount of cheaper adulterated honey or residue tainted honey

The honey police ,weather it be the industry or the gov't have been very lax,( very small industry) only pressure from AHPD and reputable packers competing with the bad product have brought forward the seriousness of the problem.This bad honey has also had a profound effect on prices, allowing the packers both good and bad the best of both worlds

The only honey I ever heard of being destroyed by FDA was a load from Canada,in old rusty drums containing lead paint chips,off the drums...... went down a empty mine shaft in Arizona, if my facts are straight

Just my opinion, like to hear others
 
#264 ·
The annual question. I don't really have an answer. But the question always makes me think of the year that I called a Northeast Packer about their price. They said that they were paying something kinda high, but they weren't buying any at that time. So what's the point of saying that I'll pay you $X.XX for your honey, but I don't want any at this time?

How much can you sell your honey for Jean-Marc? I'm offering $1.30/lb.
 
#262 ·
Every one seems to know that except the packers. Then the conversation goes "I heard such and such area had a great crop, lots of honey out there, blah blah blah... some good Argentina, plenty of honey from China or blends or adulterated honey on the market so I can offer you this price", which is usually disappointing from the beekeeper's point of view. It would be kinda nice if they had another tune to their repertoire. I mean it's getting kinda boring hearing the same old song and dance.

Jean-Marc
 
#265 ·
I sold a load $1.60 Canadian, sorta had too, it was sitting outside under tarps in a not so secure place. I was not desperate for the money but I wasn't looking for work that would have been required to get an extra shipping container, move bees to make room for it. Then move the honey wait a whole bunch of time and maybe get an extra 10 cents or perhaps 25 cents. I'm sure the market is going upwards but how high and when will it move upwards? $1.60 sounded fairly reasonable at the time.

Jean-Marc
 
#272 · (Edited)
Using the inflation calculator at http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
and using some past historic honey prices, bulk honey sold for .50/lb in 1973= 2.40/lb in 2008
Prices varied over the following years, influenced by large crops, imports, from a record high of $0.61 per pound in 1981 to $0.54 in 1993.

.61/lb in 1981=1.43/lb in 2008 .54/lb in1993 =.79/lb in 2008
 
#274 ·
Just seems to me that looking at the prices reportedly being paid in sept,in USA, are not reflecting a world shortage of white honey.Plus we have a short US and Canadian crop.No doubt packers are waiting for the official report on these crops
Current Canadian prices are higher than US,compliments of our strong rising loonie.
The US prices I think have something to do with the present economic conditions in the US where some commodities are still in the deflation mode.If we look at the last 3 years of prices ,honey has come along way, doubling in price from 2006, and personally I think it has along ways to go, but I could be wrong
 
#275 ·
I think you are right, Irwin.

I think the big boys are trying to sell the idea that prices will ease because that is what they want to see happen.

No problem. I am doing the same just in reverse. I want to see prices increase, so I talk them up. One simply has to consider the source to decode the message. Buyers used to call any such talk about rising prices “Beekeeper Talk.” So I consider the “Buyer Talk” to be just as tainted.

I’m reading a new book about the healing power of honey now. Surely I am not the only person in the world doing that. (Healing Honey by Dr. Lynne Chepulis http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Honey-Natural-Remedy-Wellness/dp/1599424851)

I see no way but up for world honey prices, even if only as a result of inflation. But with honey being grossly undervalued for what seems like a century, I can’t imagine the price falling substantially. On the contrary, if the trend towards natural sweetness continues, which I feel certain it will, the relative price of honey should keep climbing too.

By relative price, I mean despite the inflation component, honey’s value relative to glucose, oil and toothpaste: honey will be VALUED more, regardless of what it is compared to. Just a rise in price due to failing values in currency does not guarantee honey is keeping pace with inflation. If we lose too much more ground from inflation, we are off the map.

With honey having only about 1 % of the sweeteners market, we sure don’t need many more mouths to embrace it and the demand will have doubled. We don’t need the entire 6 billion people on earth on board. All we really need is a simple test the consumer can do at home to test whether the product is real honey or has been cut with some manufactured syrup.

Cheers.
JohnS
 
#276 ·
I have a copy of an old bee magazine from the late 1800s (US) and it has a 17 year diary of a beekeeper whose records showed all of his expenses, sales and pounds produced each year. I will have to find it and post his data soon.

However, based on his experience with honey production, cost and sales (from over 125 years ago) my thoughts are that the price of honey was pretty well stable in the last one hundred years. My opinion is based on the fact that I used his prices and plugged them into an inflation chart from the Minneapolis Federal Reserve Bank and came up with an inflation adjusted price of slightly over $1 per pound.

The bad news is that I don't know whether this gentleman sold his honey at a wholesale or retail price (which makes a difference). Honey prices appear to have remained constant to the US Dollar and inflation rates. This makes perfect sense whilst we were on a gold standard (until 1971).

Now, I believe that the most important factor in determining what prices we could get for honey at the wholesale (bulk) level is how much our dollar appreciates or depreciates to a basket of other major currencies.

The US Dollar has decreased by 44% since the beginning of 2000 against the EURO (ending May, 2009). This would mean a price increase of honey to maintain the status quo of about 79% since the year 2000.

What was the price of honey in the year 2000? I'm not 100% certain, but was it around $0.80 per pound? If so, then the price of $1.50 US Dollar is just keeping up with the US Dolllar's depreciation against our major trading partners.

The question that I would be asking myself is how much higher or lower is the US Dollar going to go in the next 5 to 10 years? The answer to that question will shape the focus of my bee operation. I believe that the US government has no choice but to deflate the US dollar to pay back all of our nation's debt.

Looking back to the year 2000 how the US Dollar has declined against our major trading partners as a base year and projecting a similar decline in the next ten years, then honey prices should be well over $2.25 per pound at the wholesale level IMHO. On the other hand, we could see $2.25 per pound during 2010 or 2011...

P. S. I am not an economist, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
 
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