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Bulk honey prices and market outlook

824K views 1K replies 169 participants last post by  The Honey Householder 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Deflation , then inflation and currently a whole bunch of de-leaverageing going on in this crazy economy, which I hear from the majority with crystal balls, that is only going to get worse as a recession or a depression .
Heard some packers had dropped their offering prices......... hadn't noticed any downward pricing going on the store shelf's,to the contrary , prices were actually going up there.
A Canadian honey broker recently had a offer out for 1.50 Canadian,picked up in your yard, drums lost , for 10 loads, alot of phone calls later the order was filled and she is working on another order for the same price,I hear. Canadian dollar was trading around 1.25 US. That may be GOOD PRICE at present market conditions........ but I doubt it.I don't think supply and demand have entered the big picture yet.Other Current Canadian offers were 1.40. UK honey is selling at up to £2.30 per pound in BULK- source Bee -L.
Maybe that supply and demand won't enter the pic if the packers get there way.

I must remind myself that honey is not one of those necessity foods like bread and milk and that I don't need to be quite as greedy as some of those wall street folks
 
#85 ·
The packer Capilano happens to be the Australian beekeeping Cooperative. When they first came into the Canadian market they were the lowest price on the shelf. I'm sure their members would not have been so happy to hear that. Half way around the world and they are the cheap brand. Kinda funny though. Now they've had some sort of restructuring, I think it had to do with losing money. So they are no longer associated with Labonte. Something about losing money and low price honey on the shelf, hmmm.

On another note the Canadian Beekeepers Cooperative "Beemaid" has been selling plenty of honey in China. The Chinese apparently like Canadian honey. Last I heard 1 year ago, all was going well in the 5 year plan. At the time, they were at the end of year 2. Apparently if they are still on track then after the 5 year plan there would not be enough Canadian honey to satisfy the Chinese market. Maybe the Chinese can figure a way out to ship honey to Canada, re-label it and ship it back to themselves as Canadian. Sounds like a pretty good plan, eh?

Jean-Marc
 
#86 ·
On another note the Canadian Beekeepers Cooperative "Beemaid" has been selling plenty of honey in China. The Chinese apparently like Canadian honey. Last I heard 1 year ago, all was going well in the 5 year plan. At the time, they were at the end of year 2. Apparently if they are still on track then after the 5 year plan there would not be enough Canadian honey to satisfy the Chinese market.
I always said North Americans were promoting in the wrong country, and that the promotion should be happening in China where the largest potential market is and promtion costs the least.

Glad to see someone is doing it, and that it is working. Strange that it would be Beemaid, though, since they have bene such a laggard and price taker.
 
#87 ·
BeeMaids CEO mentioned at the last AGM, that if BeeMaid could tap into the top 1% of the Chinese market, their members couldnt produce enough extra white and white honey to satisfy it,

>>The Chinese apparently like Canadian honey. Last I heard 1 year ago, all was going well in the 5 year plan. At the time, they were at the end of year 2. Apparently if they are still on track then after the 5 year plan there would not be enough Canadian honey to satisfy the Chinese market

They are talking the extra white premium honey,
but ya, so much potential

One thing BeeMaid has going for them, is the are a cooperative honey packer, buying honey only from its members. Single source honey supplier, supplying honey only from the Canadian prairies. They can source their production to the producer, pin point any concerns if any arise
 
#88 ·
Well, if you have ever tasted the "honey" packed and sold in China, you would not buy "honey" again. My wife bought me a jar when she was over there (complete with pictures of bees, etc.) and when we opened it we decided immediately that there was NO honey in it. It was awful.

I can see why the Chinese consumers would buy Canadian honey, or honey from any other country if they knew it was real and had tasted it once, AND they could be sure that the supplier was consistent.

Chinese customers tend to be quite shrewd, (justifyably) wary and expect value. Hey, they are just like any other consumers.

All the advertising in the world can only get a person to try a product once. If that experience is bad, then the product fails.

The Chinese packers selling awful "honey" have done the market some harm, but if the consumers can differentiate that junk from real honey, the sky is the limit.
 
#89 ·
One more rant, then I will desist.

Ian, Re: Msg. 101,
Plenty of thoughts, but no hard data. I was told that same company has packing plants in Argentina as well. I doubt if much Australian honey goes into North America owing to your preference for light flavor, but specialty lines of Eucalypt for the connoisseurs’ market may be bigger than I think. There are certainly a lot of Aussies living in California. I doubt if much white honey is required to come back in to Australia, as our average shelf pack will need lots of eucalypt flavor to fly well. In short seasons, mind you, some white would be welcome to soften the darker/stronger flavored grades. Mostly, I assume that company sells the bulk of its Australian input (mixed with what? only the gods would know) into Europe as Organic Honey, at considerably better prices. The Europeans are really hooked on that word Organic.

Jean-Marc (105)
For sure, honey is like gold, in as much as it circumnavigates the planet in the effort to reduce the impact of shortages and rising production costs. Traceability and proof of authenticity is scarcely possible. The paper trail and the official approvals at best looks like just another ‘license to cheat.’ In the case of gold, who cares? In the case of honey, Who Cares? If it were not for the lies we are fed about the honey market, even the beekeepers probably wouldn’t be so concerned about honey’s travels.

Re: 103/4,
The big advantage the world’s buyers had in Argentina for so long was that the beekeepers there thought they were getting better prices for their honey owing to the inflation of their currency. Now that the inflation bubble has burst there, the farmers are a bit more awake. Anyone asleep in North America? There are plenty asleep here in Australia. They don’t realize that despite the rising dollar value of their honey, they are still losing margin.

If you want a really good price for your honey sell it to Zimbabwe! You could be a millionaire overnight!

Allend (108),
Right ON! China is the best market for honey in the world! Owing to the length of time their society has been established, their beekeepers have been letting standards slip (for hundreds of years?) to the point where now, their honey is almost inedible to my taste too.

One main flaw is that they don’t let the honey ripen in the comb. At times (if my information is correct) they spin the combs on a daily basis. This unripened nectar ferments, the honey granulates rapidly and the syrup may be sold off locally from the top of the keg. This part I have seen with my own eyes. The Chinese poor cannot afford to eat honey any more so than the Americans can afford to hold gold. As an international commodity (much in demand, I might add) a pail of honey can cost many a price equal to a weeks wages.

However, despite popular beliefs, China has more rich people than any other nation. So if only 1% of them were offered good honey from your country or mine, I am sure they would go for it in a big way.

Another aside of interest, is that when you see a Chinese population in San Francisco (for instance) you may not notice that a percentage of them are constantly being recycled back through China. The point here is that quite a number of the Chinese in China have traveled and lived elsewhere and know what honey is supposed to be.

It was reported in ‘Lonely Planet’ that no Chinese person has ever died in the UK, according to the births, deaths and marriages records. This is overstated, I am sure, but wait for it: The passports are constantly being mailed back to China! You can’t help but love the Chinese. They are the world’s masters at keeping their mouths shut while they get on with the business of prospering. Many centuries of oppressive governmental burdens have taught them this.

Governmental burdens? What’s that?

Cheers,
JohnS
 
#90 ·
John Smith , please keep your "rants" COMING

Capalinao had trouble blending out the nitofurons a couple of years ago in their Argentina packing plants.If I remember correctly some of the tainted stuff ended up in Canada.
What does Eucalyptest honey sell for or pay the beekeeper in Aussie land? I think the taste may have been Capilano's downfall in Canada, that and the effort to be the cheapest product on a couple of grocery store chain shelfs broke them.
Heard BeeMaids Chinese market was a couple of container loads every 2 months....... be a long time emptying the Canadian honey crop at that rate........ this may or may not be true.




Irwin
Got no quarrel with those that sell for less........................they obviously know what their stuff is worth
 
#91 ·
>>couple of container loads every 2 months....... be a long time emptying the Canadian honey crop at that rate........ this may or may not be true.


Probably true, but its a start, and to build a reputation, you have to start somewhere,
That one percent quote was given just to give a sense of perspective,
 
#92 · (Edited)
Thanks, Irwin.

Don’t wind me up too much, …………….you’ll get us both excommunicated!

Farm gate prices in New South Wales are about US$1.00 per pound for what we consider top quality (Yellow Box, being our favorite Eucalypt honey). Advertised prices and prices paid are not necessarily the same and most information is considered ‘private’ or ‘commercially sensitive.’

Caveat Emptor in reverse would be: Let the vendor beware. Few beekeepers here have an ‘asking price.’ Most adds ‘To Buy’ simply say, “Top Prices Paid.” Too many good years when Capilano was a young and beekeeper owned institution led the beekeepers to trust the buyers and not challenge the price. Now they have mostly lost any negotiating skills they may have once had.

Capilano is now one of the few publicly listed companies dedicated to honey. Their shares are in the toilet at the moment, but someone is still buying them. If the company survives this downturn, their shares could become as good as gold! Sheri questioned whether or not the Health aspect of the market would continue. My answer is an emphatic YES. Honey is set to go through the roof. The savy investor will soon be getting ‘primed up’ and buying their shares will be on the menu. I haven't bought any yet! I have my retirement money tied up in big barrels.

A license to cheat (Organic Producer Certification) can increase one’s price by 30 percent.

I advertised honey in drums to the commercial food industry and received nil responses. They appear to know they are buying glucose with a dash of honey and seem to have no interest in buying honey from beekeepers. I spoke to a person at a social event who worked in the Seventh Day Adventist food factory and he was most adamant that they put honey in the cereal they manufacture. The label on their product does not confirm this. So they obviously ‘call’ it honey there in the factory………. Oh yes, big drums of it coming in all the time! One can only wonder why they don’t put it on their mandatory ingredients list!

The supermarket is a strong market. Honey is priced on the shelf at or about 4 times its worth at the farm gate. Beekeepers who market direct some of their (or entire) product never had it so good. Entrepreneurial marketing has the sky for a limit, of course.

Big losses in foreign exchange futures are touted to have been the downfall of large honey consortiums here. The Aussie Dollar is pretty much at the mercy of the Gnomes of Zurich. Also, with lengthy contracts with Supermarket Chains, some had to jack prices up very high at one point to cover themselves. Either that or they hoped to squeeze the small packers out, but the net result was a heap of overpriced stock after a huge spring crop came in. Not being very smart, they attributed that to the higher prices offered. They obviously don't understand honey flows in a desert continent!

When everyone is losing, there is little fat in the fire for anyone.

We have a strong immigrant population here, and they are an insatiable market for honey.
I am very suspicious (of everything?) of the nitrofurans argument. Mostly we use our science to support our economic needs, not to protect our health.

If we all knew how many legal carcinogens are in all the other factory foods we consume we would gag! It would be debatable that the Chinese population is less healthy than the North American one. Obesity is conspicuously absent there, anyway.
If North Americans eat less than one percent of their sugar intake as honey, I can’t see why a poison measured in parts per million (or billion?) is likely to cause any increase in anorexia!

If the Chinese and the Argentineans are using these nitrofurans, perhaps they are better antibiotics than those we manufacture and market in Westernized countries. After all, they have the big surpluses of honey and we are unable to produce enough for ourselves. But do our regulators have permission from the World Health Organization to accept Chinese antibiotics? The plot sickens! What is a carcinogen and what is not is subject to the judgment of the expert. We do not encourage feeding test over extended periods. Even our much vaunted ‘Toxicity’ tests are mainly carried out on the young, (university students?) who everyone knows can eat manure without much shock!

Ian Steppler has it Right (Msg.111). With confidence in our world’s institutions at an all time low, the only way the honey industry can regain its rightful market share is if we start at the beekeeper level and rebuild our market from there. That is why I am so excited about “The Honey Revolution.”

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225156&highlight=honey+revolution

Someone play “The Last Post” as I am out of here for a while! Would rather not destroy my welcome all at once!

Cheers,
JohnS
 
#99 ·
1.60can =1.27USD.
Yeah, and 1.75CAD = $1.406US. I use xe also.:)
The $1.27 is a bit lower than we have been quoted. We too were told by a US Packer "We can get all the Canadian honey we want delivered for $1.25, but we don't want to leave out the US beekeeper". Nice of him, eh?
So even $1.27 looks like an improvement to me, and $1.40 for clover (which is what we have) is heading towards where it peaked last year. Moving in the right direction at least.
Sheri
 
#100 ·
That cheap 1.25USD Canadian honey

"We can get all the Canadian honey we want delivered for $1.25, but we don't want to leave out the US beekeeper". Nice of him, eh?



That cheap 1.25- 1.28USD Canadian honey

is rapidly evaporating............should be all gone by now.............only higher priced honey left, me thinks

I wonder how much the depression has crushed or shrunk demand IF AT all.......
Packers and brokers are playing the game well........... get as much now, as cheap as possible , cause down the road honey is going to be more costly.Bet they are all carrying short inventories infear of worse things to come in the economy
 
#103 ·
Cheap chinese@ .89/lb, by the drum,white

close to Los Angeles, FOB Rowland Heights CA 91748. ............item found on Bee L,

The old chinese limbo game..........how low can we go.......... organic from Mongolia, or it would be lower priced.......... currently being tested for everthing under the sun........sold by Mega Farms
 
#107 ·
Argentina ups price again

http://apitrack.com/index_en_open.htm

ARGENTINA- INCREASING THE PRICE PAID TO HONEY PRODUCERS
As reported by the Grain Stock Exchange in Buenos Aires today, has increased the producer price per kilogram of honey, export quality, kg per drum to $ 7.50 (+8.7%), equivalent to 2.10 U.S. dollars per kilogram (+6%). According to the calculations of the beekeeper Jorge Cargnelutti, this figure would show a value of exports from Argentina to dollars $ 2.69 per kilogram and an apparent value in the global market of 3.2 dollars per kilogram (without a net import surcharges)

We are now back to the price that was being offered in oct 2008......... will rise continue on further news of the poor crop?....... US packers were buying domestic honey cheaper last fall
 
#109 ·
I have been reading cropping reports of world weather conditions. This past year showed some unfavourable conditions, resulting in production deficits, yet there still has been a huge amount of food produced world wide.
Predictions for subsequent cropping conditions are favourable. So much so that there is the feeling of an abundance of food produced.
IF this is the case, we are probably looking at a decrease in food commodities into the next year. That is IF, remember, IF this doesn't hold true, then we stay in the black. From what I have been observing over the last few years is that honey production does tend to follow the same rules as cropping production. No crop, no honey. Lots of crop, lots of honey.

All I am saying, is look at the charts. This is a high price paid for honey. Might want to take it while its high. Sell old crop at a high price, sell new crop after its in your drums. Dont put all your eggs in one basket,
 
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