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Bulk honey prices and market outlook

824K views 1K replies 169 participants last post by  The Honey Householder 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Deflation , then inflation and currently a whole bunch of de-leaverageing going on in this crazy economy, which I hear from the majority with crystal balls, that is only going to get worse as a recession or a depression .
Heard some packers had dropped their offering prices......... hadn't noticed any downward pricing going on the store shelf's,to the contrary , prices were actually going up there.
A Canadian honey broker recently had a offer out for 1.50 Canadian,picked up in your yard, drums lost , for 10 loads, alot of phone calls later the order was filled and she is working on another order for the same price,I hear. Canadian dollar was trading around 1.25 US. That may be GOOD PRICE at present market conditions........ but I doubt it.I don't think supply and demand have entered the big picture yet.Other Current Canadian offers were 1.40. UK honey is selling at up to £2.30 per pound in BULK- source Bee -L.
Maybe that supply and demand won't enter the pic if the packers get there way.

I must remind myself that honey is not one of those necessity foods like bread and milk and that I don't need to be quite as greedy as some of those wall street folks
 
#572 ·
Some interesting stats , info at http://panjiva.com/trends/honey

Checking out the suppliers, every kind of honey,blend, syrup and combination of, and suppliers of honey melons here, exported to USA and Canada,more info available for a price, probably well worth the investment.The paper trail of imported honey and syrup is quite easily followed .... until after it clears customs then its lost.The original importer is not necessarily the final customer
Noticed some shipments are of "not marked " drums,could this be so the final buyer ,packer wouldn't be suspicious of the products actual origin and if it passed the buyers stringent tests it would be marketed
 
#573 ·
Interesting sites lots of good info. I have talked to a couple of the packers that are involved in True Source and I am convinced that they are sincere. I think, in fairness, we have to look at it from their perspective. It would have to be really frustrating to compete for shelf space or major bulk accounts with the unethical buyers of some of this "honey". Without something like this its not exactly a level playing field if you are trying to offer a quality product.
 
#574 · (Edited)
I would like to agree with you Jim that the packers involved in True Source are sincere and would like to get this " honey" out of the market and not have to compete with it, on the shelf or in the bulk industrial market .However I have some thoughts about this From the packers perspective.
Seems once the "honey" is confirmed adulterated or contaminated, which usually occurs in the perspective buyers lab ,honey is being held but not paid for , it is returned to the seller, broker and hence moved to the next buyer,ultimately ending up in the market.
In my opinion the eventual buyer gets a real cheap "inferior " product which he can blend out.Now he can market this product slightly below the competitions price.Nothing like good competition to keep the prices low
Until we have a clear definition of honey from the US gov't , I see no end to the schemes from the suppliers of an inferior product , those who sell it and those who pass it to the next guy.Just because you didn't pack it doesn't mean you haven't been successful.Large supply usually means low price
The are many ways of manipulating a market,or holding the price down,allowing this "honey" to enter the market is one I'd say.
I personally think the majority of this "honey" ends up in the huge industrial market, this I believe forms a base price on all honey shelf or bakery
A packer I know packs a lot of industrial honey, it is all his own honey and it is white honey.He had a hard time at first convincing his customers it was honey, His sales have grown every year,he gets as much and usually more money for his product in this market
 
#575 ·
Guess we will just have to agree to respectfully disagree on this one. I dont think its fair to lump them all together as being part of a larger conspiracy to drive prices down. If you are in that business you are essentially faced with two options.
A Compete in this race to the bottom or
B Stand up and say enough already, I want a level playing field and I want my customers to get real honey.
Maybe I am just naive but I really want to believe that not everybody is in group A or if they are they want out.
 
#583 ·
Presidents choice or No Name packed honey on the shelves of Super Store are selling for about $6 per kg creamed white honey. Billy Bee is selling for $10 per kg creamed white honey. Thats $4 difference in retail price. They are both blended off shore honey, how can No Name sell for that price
 
#584 ·
Honey at $1.5/lb, so that's $3.30/kg of honey. Another 2% for shrinkage, that's $3.37 per kg of honey. They have another 70 cents or so for the jar and label. I'm not current on these prices, but they pack in PET and not glass , so a little cheaper. Could be a little more or a little less. We are around $4.10/kg. President's Choice is their store brand and you can bet that the packer didn't make any money at it or very little. Very small margin here. I dunno for sure but I doubt much less than 35 cents and really doubt 60 cents per kg. So maybe $4.6/kg. Again could be a bit more, I don't think much less. Throw in some freight to the central warehouse and then to the individual stores. We are getting close to $5.00/kg. Superstore might have $1.00 profit in it per kg. They are not making big $$ selling honey. They probably have a slighly better margin on the BeeMaid honey, but some people don't want to shell out $10/kg for creamed honey. For those people they have the $6.00/kg option. So from the superstore point of view they get some honey money from the $ conscious consummers.

Jean-Marc
 
#586 ·
It's when honey is processed and goes from the barrel into the jar. Packers loose between 1 and 2 percent. So if 650 pounds of honey are in the drum you won't end up with 650 one pound jars, you'll end up with maybe 635 or 640. The heat from processing evaporates some of the moisture from the honey and poof it's gone, shrinkage.

Jean-Marc
 
#588 ·
How does losing 2% of the honey due to evaporation increase the value of the honey you sold by 2%? If I sell my honey for $3.30/kg, how does the packer losing 2% due to evaporation pay me $3.37/kg as in your example?

What is to prevent packers from adding 2% water to offset the 2% evaporative loss? I highly doubt a packer is going to sell 14% moisture honey when they can add a little water to turn it into 18% honey...and the water they add to get the 18% gets sold at honey prices.
 
#589 ·
That 2% loss doesn't add value to the honey, it adds cost of it. The packer doesn't pay you that money but he has to offset it or at least account for it, then pass it on the the consummer. The point I was trying to make to Ian was that even at $6/kg, there is still a little bit of profit there somewhere for somebody. There is not a lot of profit for the packer nor the store. Why they do it, I speculated on, but only they can answer that for sure.

Nothing prevents a packer from adding water. I don't think they do it, it's probably not that easy in the sense that to blend it into the honey they would have to circulate/agitate that for some time so that later the water doesn't float up and cause fermentation issues. How long would he have to agitate the honey/water, I don't know, but long enough to slow down the whole production. That cost with the associated risk of future fermentation is probably higher than packing low moisture honey.

Packers probably won't pack 14% honey, but they'll likely blend it with high moisture honey.
This is easier to do on a physical level. 19% honey is going to float on 14% honey, but will not float as much as water will on 14% honey. So it's easier to blend

Jean-Marc
 
#590 ·
The word for this loss is: ULLAGE.

It is used mostly in the wine making industry, but it covers a multitude of ways one always ends up with less in the bottles than he bought in the drum.

When you think about it, there must be a million ways we lose honey this way, and a forklift tine piercing a drum can do you a lot of damage. The two percent loss is only an estimated average. Don't buy too many leaking drums or that numeral might rise!

Cheers,

JohnS
 
#591 · (Edited by Moderator)
Yeah so whats with the deal with these packers wanting to pay 30 days out? One called me for a few barrels. Then wanted 10 barrels. Then wanted me to drop off and wait 30 days for a check in the mail. I said THANKS but gee I can't make other folks wait 30 or 90 days for my payments either. Seems to me they want to sell my honey and then pay me for it.
 
#592 ·
Net 30 is pretty standard among the major packers except for Dutch Gold which, I think, is net 15 and then of course theres Sue but lets not get started on that. Suppose a seller can hold out for whatever terms they feel are fair.
 
#593 · (Edited)
Honey Market Update at Skamberg http://skamberg.com/

prices in Argentina http://www.apinews.com/en/contents/argentina-honey-price


Saturday, 15 January 2011 16:22 Posted by Juan Carlos Hidalgo

In the 8 th Region of Chile (Area where I work). yields are a mess, less than 20% of normal. No records in the last 10 years of harvest worse. The other regions of Chile are not much better. We believe that there will be a great loss of bees from starvation and looting from February onwards, because beekeepers, mostly small, have no funds to feed the bees.
Juan Carlos Hidalgo compliments

taken from the above web site.......could prices be on the move?
 
#597 ·
Sold the last of 2010 crop for $1.95 but was only a 7 ton lot. Just wondering If I should have held longer. Spring weather has been cold and looks to be the wettest April since the 40's.:eek: With the price of bees up 10-15% this year just wondering what honey is going to be this year. Heard of some package shippment coming out of the south short this year because of colder weather. Is there much of 2010 crop left.
 
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