Bayer Pesticide Chemicals Linked to Devastating Collapse of Honeybees- Sept. 30, 08

[Eaglerock]

http://www.naturalnews.com/024362.html

[JoeMcc]

Very interesting. Keeping an eye on the thread.

JoeMcc

[Bodo]

Again. It's the application methods, not the pesticide alone that cause these unfortunate bee deaths.

[BjornBee]

Sounds like classic pesticide poisoning. To stretch it as far as to say that this is responsible for the world bee dieoff crisis (CCD) is a little premature.

Not long ago, Maryann Frazier made a presentation that clearly showed that in samples of TRUE CCD cases, most pesticides thought to be associated with CCD claims, was only found in around 30% of samples. That this pesticide or that pesticide was only seen in far less than what would be expected.

Interesting that the article noted "dead bees piled in front of the hives", yet also suggests that this "may" be what has caused bee collapse around the world. CCD and what most of the world is seeing is not dead bees piled in front of a hive.

I agree that these chemicals were to blame for the kill-off. I just do not agree with further assumptions made.

[Bodo]

I agree with Bjorn. It's a shame that people are so ready to blame Bayer. IMO, they'd be better off spending their time and energy looking for the real cause of CCD, whatever it may be.

[Eaglerock]

Interesting that the article noted "dead bees piled in front of the hives", yet also suggests that this "may" be what has caused bee collapse around the world. CCD and what most of the world is seeing is not dead bees piled in front of a hive.

I agree that these chemicals were to blame for the kill-off. .

I didn't see that part about bees piled however, I am thinking the dead bees would be new bees waiting, maybe. Which died waiting for the older bees to bring food.

Quote: While in many cases bees have actually been found dead, as in the Baden-Württemberg incident, beekeepers have been particularly alarmed by CCD, in which the bees simply vanish, leaving empty hives behind them.

I wonder how they could be linked. I am not saying that couldn't be, I am just wondering.

[Eaglerock]

I agree with Bjorn. It's a shame that people are so ready to blame Bayer. IMO, they'd be better off spending their time and energy looking for the real cause of CCD, whatever it may be.

BjornBee said,"I agree that these chemicals were to blame for the kill-off."

One of the biggest would be Bayer's Pesticide Chemicals.

[Bud Dingler]

found in every single CCD case was fluvalinate and comaphous from long term use of these two miticides. there was no other common thread of chemical contamination in the combs from CCD hives.

furthermore these two chems and their metabolites were found at levels 1000:1 greater then most agricultural chems brought in by the bees. why would this be any surprise? When you routinely dump chems into a hive of course they are going to be more concentrated then some part per billion form the outside environment.

while the media, feed lot beekeepers (in denial about their own chem abuse) and tree huggers have fantasies about Bayer causing a mysterious bee loss, the scientific community has been focusing on pathogens vectored by varroa mite and nosema ceranae.

if Bayer was the smoking gun the final answer would have come along time ago. keep in mind also that in the EU and UK, the green party has a huge sway in politics and as a result bloated, voodoo science stories of scary gmo's, cell phones causing brain cancer and bayer bee killer chems are front page headlines. thankfully we still rely on hard science in this country to set environmental policies, but I see a break down in that approach as the internet and media float more and more junk science stories and the public gets dumber and dumber in the area of science and technology.

[Jack Grimshaw]

"thankfully we still rely on hard science in this country to set environmental policies"

Unfortunately,this is what we have to do to get the results

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/aug2...-08-19-092.asp

[drobbins]

>>found in every single CCD case was fluvalinate and comaphous from long term use of these two miticides. there was no other common thread of chemical contamination in the combs from CCD hives.

Bud,

I'm curious what you or others know about this
I've never used fluvalinate or comphous and I'm hoping this affords me some protection from CCD. So far all is well. I have heard it said that CCD had been found in hives of bees kept without the use of these chemicals. Do you have any info on if this is true??

inquiring minds want to know
Dave

[Eaglerock]

if Bayer was the smoking gun the final answer would have come along time ago. .

Given the fact that Bayer gives them 2.2 Million dollars every year and employs more than 185 Penn State grads, doesn't keep them from stating what Bayers Chems really does to our bees. Not until they find them something else to use will we hear the truth.
So your comment, "if Bayer was the smoking gun the final answer would have come along time ago." Not until Bayers says it is ok.

http://www.bayerus.com/Foundation/Ne...67F870018F7002

[edenhillapiaries]

I can't believe that some are still pointing fingers at Bayer and neonicotinoids as the culprit behind CCD. After reading the Bee Journal and many great sites on the web including Randy Oliver's it seems as if there are other factors (nutrition, Nosema c.,etc.) involved in CCD.

But it is easier to point fingers at the big bad chemical giants and subscribe to conspiracy theories than to look at what we may need to change. Why not blame it on cell phones or space aliens?

Beekeeping and agriculture are permanently intertwined and when farmers are successful it benefits beekeepers. As pollination becomes more and more of a beekeepers income it seems to me that we all need to stay in business and profitable to make it work.

Growers in the fruit and vegetable industry are under increased pressure to abandon older "hard" chemistries such as organophosphates, and carbamates. The new alternatives, such as the neonics, are more expensive for the grower and many would rather stick with what they know (Guithion, Asana, etc.). Unfortunately AZM (Guithion) is being phased out of fruit production so many are turning to the neonics. If these chemistries are lost, what are the alternatives?

The German and French problems are a clear instance of the misuse of a chemical. The misuse of any product will lead to problems. Instead of looking for people to blame, why not look at what we all can do or change to ensure the survival of the honeybee.

[BjornBee]

After reading some of the knee-jerk reactions, some comments clearly slanted as biased with no proof other than disdain for a company that makes this or that, and the conclusions some draw when normal rationale would prevail otherwise...I'm left wondering what the benefits of such open discussions when so many have input based on little more than what I would call....nonsense.

Does this help the process or hurt? Does those left in the middle actual learn anything? I think it's like politics. Comments are based on personal bias and hatred toward anything from large companies, to chemical manufacturers, to suggestions of near conspiracies. I think it takes little more than a poorly written article or anything that would go along with pre-conceived notions, whether correct or not, and many will draw the line in the sand of truth and will consider little else.

Even the article written suggests "perhaps" or mentions more information is needed. But some take an article such as this and will form a solid 100% damning opinion on the matter, mainly by reading between the lines and selectively choosing the points to conform with their already drawn conclusions.

Oh well. It's early today. Maybe things will get better.....

[Eaglerock]

Oh well. It's early today. Maybe things will get better.....

Don't count on it getting better, unless the sun comes out for the bees to work. Yesterday they didn't do anything until mid-afternoon. It was cold, but the sun came out later which made their day.

As far as your comment, I am sure you are right, it is like politics. I have always known that these companies also control or political base as well as others. I am not sure there is anything we can do about that. As far as Bayer, lets hope they do the right thing if they know. As with politics, it may take years until we know the truth.

Right now our goal should be to keep the honeybee from dying out. Could it happen, yes, as with any other living thing. But will it happen, I don't believe it will, or maybe I am just hoping. Whatever it is, maybe they will soon become amune to it.

[peggjam]

I would love to be able to point my finger at something and say "yup, this is what is causing CCD". We're not there yet, and maybe we'll never get there. First things first, if you are keeping your bees healthy, that is the biggest part of the battle, the rest will fall into place in due time.

[Ian]

Just a comment on point blame for the CCD losses and all,

Its funny how many beekeepers there are that actually dont believe CCD even exists. Claiming bad management is killin off the hives. It an opinion that just keeps popping up.
Seems kind of silly, there is alot of independant studdy into this kind of loss symtoms.

It is also kind of funny how every lobby group and thier dog has used CCD and our industry to support thier cause.

[suttonbeeman]

a friend of mine has lost 50% of his bees in florida that were pollinating mellons.Alot of other beekeepers have the same result......he fed pollen sub and sugar trying to keep them from dwindling away to no avail......growers using nicotinoids......../??????????

[Eaglerock]

Here are a list of Bayers insecticide articles. There are many many more... Do we really believe that a Chemical- nicotinoids, that acts on the central nervous system of insects, causing irreversible blockage of postsynaptic nicotinergic acetylcholine receptors, causing the insect to become disoriented, would not have any effect on our honeybees?

>It is used as a soil, seed or foliar treatment in cotton, rice cereals, peanuts, potatoes, vegetables, pome fruits, pecans and turf, for the control of sucking insects, soil insects, whiteflies, termites, turf insects and the Colorado potato beetle, with long residual control. Imidacloprid has no effect on mites or nematodes.

http://www.bayer-kills-bees.com/

http://www-infocris.iaea.org/EN/w3.exe$SSPage?ID=141&Show=12

http://viewzone.com/lostbees.bayer.html

http://industry.bnet.com/pharma/1000...ss-bee-deaths/

http://www.nowpublic.com/environment...ther-honeybees

http://www.epa.gov/opprd001/factsheets/clothianidin.pdf

Bayer withdraw all neo-nicotinoids from ...
http://www.genecampaign.org/Sub%20pa...-wek1=ID19.htm

http://www.promedmail.org/pls/otn/f?...0080613.1868,Y

http://preardon.wordpress.com/2008/0...her-honeybees/

>Five years ago, EPA registered a new pesticide known as clothianidin under the condition that the manufacturer -- North Carolina-based Bayer CropScience -- submit studies about the product's effect on bees. The NRDC requested those studies from the EPA under the Freedom of Information Act, but the agency has declined to disclose them. Says NRDC Senior Attorney Aaron Colangelo:

>"EPA should be evaluating the risks to bees before approving new pesticides, but now refuses to tell the public what it knows. Pesticide restrictions might be at the heart of the solution to this growing crisis, so why hide the information they should be using to make those decisions?"
http://southernstudies.org/facingsou...pesticides.asp

http://gcrec.ifas.ufl.edu/TOMATO%202003.pdf

[pcelar]

I agree with Bjorn. It's a shame that people are so ready to blame Bayer. IMO, they'd be better off spending their time and energy looking for the real cause of CCD, whatever it may be.

BjornBee said,"I agree that these chemicals were to blame for the kill-off."

One of the biggest would be Bayer's Pesticide Chemicals.

English vs. English

[Joseph Clemens]

Despite the fact that I have never lost a colony to anything, including mites, foulbroods, or even CCD. I still respect the rights of others to believe that these pests are real and that they can be fatal. And, perhaps, since it has not been unequivocally determined otherwise, that a factor in CCD may be pesticides.