1st time using Mite-Away II (Holy Smokes!!!)

[MichaelW]

Beekeeper Joe says , "That sounds all well and good, but I have tried reducing pesticides
in my hives, and tried not treating this year, but mites and PMS came in and began
devastating some of my apiaries, so I had to treat. Compared to IPM, pesticides
seems to me to be
1. Highly effective
2. Have a rapid curative action in preventing economic damage
3. Adaptable to most situations
4. Flexible in meeting changing agronomic and ecological conditions
5. Relatively economical
6. Simple to use (in most cases)
7. And give me "peace of mind", just like that Apistan ad on the back of the Kelly Catalog."

IPM promoter replies, "Well remember Joe, IPM in no way eliminates pesticides from the
toolkit of beekeepers. It instead promotes the integration of all the above, including,
but certainly and clearly not limited to, pesticide use strategies. That said, when resorting
to a pesticide one must consider the following in selecting and using a pesticide.
1. Deliberate and careful timing of pesticide application
2. Careful selection of the material
3. Careful selection of formulation
4. Careful selection of concentration
5. Careful selection of method of application"

Beekeeper Joe: "Thanks IPM Promoter"
IPM Promoter: "Your welcome Joe, now I've got to go take an exam and see if I can regurgitate
all this information without my notes."

[fatscher]

Still not convinced? Are you thinking its a lot easier and more profitable to simply rely on scheduled pesticide applications?

I'm with you, man. But I goofed this year. I did not adequately break the brood cycle in my bees, plus I used a non-hygenic type of bee -- I hived a 3 lb package of Italians from Wilbanks. Plus, I did not freeze my mite trap drone frame.

But, hey, at least I got a SBB.

This is the end of week one of MiteAwayII treatment.

[Jack Weston]

I followed the instructions carefully and tried it for two years in a row in the Fall on one hive. There was a clear reduction in hive strength the following Spring. So I stopped using it.

[knightm1]

I eat the honey I steal from my bee's.I havent used chemicals on most of my hives for seveal years. I have survivor stock from Russian, Italian, carnolian and SMR queens. I think IPM in a passive form, such as SSB is acceptable. I believe that genetics is the only viable solution to mite problems. Genetics are probably the cause of many of our problems. For thousands of years beekeepers have bred the bees for desirable attibutes, such as honey production, swarming issues, defensiveness and so on. In this enviroment, the bees become highly specialized. I believe that in doing this we may have made our own bed, in that an existing pest might gain an advantage in the hive. Also when a new vermin is introduced, the bees do not have the genes available to deal with the added burden. Since the early days of beekeeping, the beekeeper has had to deal with pests in the hive, Wax moths were seen as a problem, but the real problem was poor management (weak hives). Wax moths and SHB are controlled best by the bees. There are measures we can use to assist the bees, without the poisons. Example: I learned this at a bee meeting in Forsyth County, NC. Pollen substitutes and pollen patties attract the SHB. So some people say, we can't use patties any more. An old beekeeper suggested that instead of patties, use small strips of bee bread on the top bars of the hives. The hive beetles still lay eggs in the strips, only now the bees eat all the their protein and the hive beetle eggs(more protein). We need to be smarter than the bugs!
The real problem in beekeeping today, IMVHO is the use of legal and illegal pesticides in our hives. By treating the symtoms, with chemicals, we allow less viable bees to survive and reproduce. This sets up a downward spiral, that requires more and more powerful and more dangerous chemicals.(ChekMite, will destroy your eyes if it gets in them). The real problem is the bees.
Example: I recently bought some packages from a local producer this year. It was a mistake. What I got for my trouble was hive beetles and bees thart are suceptible to mites. I had none of the former and little of the latter, before. Fortunately these are in a separate apiary, with only two of my survivor hives, which now have beetles, BTW. Of the four packages, I bought this spring, two made decent hives and two were very weak. I joined the two weak ones to the two better hives. So now I have two hives that may survive, but are mite infested. I did panic when I saw the hive beetles and treated with checkmite. Checkmite is very bad stuff. After reading the inclosed literature and taking great care not to injure myself. I treated the hives for beetles. It killed brood and the SHB survived. I dug a deep hole and buried this poison in the dirt.
If any of these bees survive I will requeen this spring with my survivor stock
The bees that survive are better suited to resist the pests. They will be stronger and better bees. It also costs money to treat the bees. It takes time. It's crazy. There are many queens on the market that are bred from mite resistant strains of bees. SMR, Hygenetic and survivor stock. There are many people who use natural sized brood comb with fantastic results. The use of chemicals is counter productive, costly and unhealthy. It is better to take your losses early and gain a better bee. If none of your bee survive, your buying the wrong bees from the wrong people. Buy better bees. Resist the urge to save a hive that can't survive on its own. You will be a better, more productive beekeeper if you do.
Thanks
Mickey Knight

[Brent Bean]

I have used mite-away II since 2005 when it was approved for use in the US. Like any treatment if is vitally important to follow the directions, and one very important direction is temperature during application. Especially during the first week. If the daytime high will exceed 82 degrees you need to remove the pads and re-apply when temperatures fall into porper band, if not high mortality will occur.
I have never experienced any noticeable bee mortality using it. If you are, then reading the directions should solve the problem. Formic acid treatment isn’t new they have been using it in Canada and Europe for over twenty years.

[knightm1]

The point I am making is that dependence on any foreign substance can't be good for the bees, the beekeeper or the honey. There are ways to get off of the chemical treadmill. One is natural cell beekeeping, another is genetics. Would you sell a cow; to the unsuspecting public, that was diseased? It's the same thing.
The bee business wants you to buy their products , at ridiculous prices. Who knows what the long term effects are from these "medicines".
We can get all the tainted honey we need from China.

Thanks

[ScadsOBees]

The point I am making is that dependence on any foreign substance can't be good for the bees, the beekeeper or the honey. There are ways to get off of the chemical treadmill. One is natural cell beekeeping, another is genetics. Would you sell a cow; to the unsuspecting public, that was diseased? It's the same thing.
The bee business wants you to buy their products , at ridiculous prices. Who knows what the long term effects are from these "medicines".
We can get all the tainted honey we need from China.

Thanks

For the same reason that I feed medicine to my kids. And some of the medicines that they have taken...yikes!
Nope, my kids aren't all natural. But they are alive and healthy, and I thank the Good Lord every day for that.

If I need to put some insectide on my plants to kill the bugs killing them, or add so some fertilizer to keep them healthy, I do. Anybody just let the cabbage go so they can breed a cabbage-looper-free cabbage? Good luck.

Now you want the farmers to let the weak cows die? The only time they'd sell a diseased cow if they won't spend the money on a vet and medicine, and yes that would be negligence or deceipt.

Letting weak hives die is great to do if you have 100's of hives and lots of money to cover the really lean years.

If you have only a few hives it is pointless and you will be buying packages every spring. Especially if you buy your queens. No thanks, I find a pail of thymol is cheaper than 3 or 4 packages every year. And my honey is as contaminant free as anybody elses.

Thanks for bringing up China. A great example of what happens when everybody does anything anytime they want to. They don't have standards or any testing there. (although they are finding out really quickly what happens without!)

Rick

[swarm_trapper]

did a small test this fall with the mite away i was pretty impressed did not see any bee mortality and they kept laying through the treatment i only did thirty hives though did a better job of cleaning up the mites that the thymol treatment i was useing.

[beedeetee]

I had two hives that I didn't think that I would have to treat in mid-August. In mid-September they were dropping a lot of mites so I tried Mite-away II. I was pretty impressed. I didn't check for brood while the pads were on, but the hives are looking great right now.

We did have a 90F day in week three. I left the pads on without any noticeable problems. I can see that it will have its uses. I still have a few hives that I didn't treat, so I will check in the spring and might use it then if they need it.

[Brent Bean]

Knightm1:

I guess you could call varroa and tracheal mites foreign to the hives as well. And in the mean time while we breed better bees and prefect non chemical means of controlling parasites like mites a crutch like Mite-Away II is an option for the brass knuckles approach to keeping honeybees from going the way of the Dodo bird. All medicines have side affects that could be negative just listen to some of the miracle drugs side affects that are being advertised on TV, some will scare the paints off you. But you have to weigh what you have to gain by what you have to loose. Small pox vaccine has some potentially nasty side affects but small pox is much worse.
Do I want to quit using a crutch to keep my bees from dieing, sure and that is an objective of mine, some people like BjornBee are ahead of the curve and can show that it is possible. But in the mean time the humane thing I can do for my bees is help them, and breed from colonies that show more resilience to foreign attacks.

[knightm1]

I got into this endeavour for the honey. I continue in this avocation because I love it. I do not like to eat honey that is raised by any one but me. I believe that pure, raw natural honey is very good for you. There is very little of that stuff around today. I have the only stock of that kind of honey, that I know of.
Anyone who uses pesticides (medications) to save their hives (babys) and does nothing to improve their stock is wasting money, time and damaging the bees and beekeeping in general. For the cost of treating a hive with pesticides, you can buy a mite resistant queen and requeen the hive. See http://members.aol.com/queenb95/ for more information. I am in no way affiliated with these people. I bought a few breeders from them and this is where my survivors stock comes from.
These queens will be naturally bred from breeders who may or may not have resistant stock, if they do their genetics will be better. It takes several generations of queens to get a resistent stock. Natural selection, if allowed to perform it's God given role in nature, will allow better queens and bees to survive. If 90% of our hives die, the 10 percent that do will be better bee's.
You can buy breeder queens that are artificially inseminated and therefore produce progeny that are even more mite resistant, this will cut out several generations of natural trial and error. These queens aren't cheap and their is the danger of supercedure.
My experience is that these bee will survive if left alone.
I left these on their own for two years due to my work situation and I stole the honey. They swarmed and their are now feral bees in the area.
Of course, buying bee's that are not mite resistant is counter productive and only introduces inferior genes back into the gene pool. If the feral stocks die out, is it due to varroa or bad genes from poor bee breeders?

[be lote]

knightm1 folks that can get by without chemicals in there ipm stratage need to feel blessed. we aint that fortunate.
goin to the field with a empty hive an a 3 lb package aint goin give you the best results. hard lesson learned.

[knightm1]

Do not buy the bee's from people who aren't using resistant queens. I know it is not an option in many cases. It may be that, like I did this year, I bought packages from a local bee dealer, who doesn't believe that genetics works and believes that you must use chemicals. These are inferior bees. I've lost two of the four hives I bought due to varroa and tracheal mites. It's been proven that with hygienic and/or Varroa Mite Resistant queens will survive better. I plan to never again buy packages with a queen, unless they are SMR. I think I would be better off to order several SMR queens and then get packages with out queens. In the first brood cycle there is a marked reduction in varroa populations.
In the long run as these resistive genetics work their way into the gene pool we can expect better survival rates, but by using chemicals to ensure the survival of less sustainable populations of bees, we postpone that day.