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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    mendocino county N Calif
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    34

    Default R U ready to get mad?

    When fielding questions at farmers markets and presentations-
    Ive noticed that John Q. Public doesnt seem to realize that it is standard proceedure for most beekeepers to dose their hives with miticides and antibiotics at least once, twice a year- Mavrik., etc.

    They are vaugely aware that the bees are in some kind of trouble but... When I let it slip once or twice that most keepers poison their hives, I noticed that people were really shocked that "natural, raw honey" comes from hives where the bees were dosed with pesticides .

    ok get ready... here it comes...

    SINCERE YET RHETORICAL NAive question ALERT!...

    Do we, as beekeepers have any responsibility to inform the public about possible toxic exposure from what has been marketed as pure and natural- for decades?

    Have our practices helped to perpetuate the decline of the honeybees and decieved the public?

    Matt

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    morehead city, nc, usa
    Posts
    378

    Default

    You let this information slip while you are selling honey at the farmer's market? SMMOOOOTH! Personally, I don't put ANYTHING in my hives but bees. Our honey is as pure as the air we breathe and the water we drink.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Snowmass, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    2,496

    Default

    No offense Matt, but it appears that you don't know too much about honey production.

    One, I don't know of one commercial beek that threats their hives with honey supers on.

    Second you statement "When I let it slip once or twice that most keepers poison their hives" is absolutely false. Since when is treating any type of livestock and yes bees are considered livestock "poisoning them? Do you poison your child when you give them an antibiotic? Do you poison them when getting them vaccinated?

    Third, when you buy a pound of beef does it list all the antibiotics, vaccinations, growth hormones, and the feed they were fed, to include what pesticides and and other chemicals were used on those crops? No it doesn't.

    I suggest you stick with telling people what is in your own hives and not tainting the beekeeping industry with sensational half truths and assumptions.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,464

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mendocino queen honey View Post
    Do we, as beekeepers have any responsibility to inform the public about possible toxic exposure from what has been marketed as pure and natural- for decades?
    There is a mindset with some that it doesn't really matter what goes into the hive in way of treatments and drugs as long as the honey stays "pure." Some claim to test their honey and the USDA standards they go by are the same ones that keep being readjusted up to allow more parts in honey.

    I know it's a touchy issue, but for me personally, I let my customers know that I do not put anything into my hives that the bees do not bring in themselves. No, I don't open feed either. I will not claim that my honey is more pure than . . .
    Regards, Barry

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Damascus, Maryland
    Posts
    376

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by peletier View Post
    Our honey is as pure as the air we breathe and the water we drink.
    I get it:}:}
    "Life without God is like an unsharpened pencil - it has no point."

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,464

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alpha6 View Post
    I suggest you stick with telling people what is in your own hives and not tainting the beekeeping industry with sensational half truths and assumptions.
    The truth is, some chemicals used by beekeepers ARE toxic to bees. Surely you're aware the effect coumaphos is having on bees and comb, especially queens? There is no debate about this. The only area of debate is purity of honey, and everyone would have to have their honey tested to know how pure their honey really is.
    Regards, Barry

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    276

    Default

    I second Alpha`s response.
    Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss you`ll be among the stars!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Damascus, Maryland
    Posts
    376

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    The truth is, some chemicals used by beekeepers ARE toxic to bees. Surely you're aware the effect coumaphos is having on bees and comb, especially queens? There is no debate about this. The only area of debate is purity of honey, and everyone would have to have their honey tested to know how pure their honey really is.

    Barry,

    My honey God bless her is sure pure. Just thinking of all the CRAP she has to do to put up with me stinks:}:}



    Okgotogonow:}
    "Life without God is like an unsharpened pencil - it has no point."

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,464

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alpha6 View Post
    No offense Matt, but it appears that you don't know too much about hoThird, when you buy a pound of beef does it list all the antibiotics, vaccinations, growth hormones, and the feed they were fed, to include what pesticides and and other chemicals were used on those crops? No it doesn't.
    Too bad. It should. In fact, I will buy chicken from a seller that goes out of their way to inform me that antibiotics were not used, etc. This is what I buy:
    http://www.millerpoultry.com/about.php
    Regards, Barry

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Venango/Crawford Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,709

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mendocino queen honey View Post
    Ive noticed that John Q. Public doesnt seem to realize that it is standard proceedure for most beekeepers to dose their hives with miticides and antibiotics at least once, twice a year- Mavrik., etc.

    They are vaugely aware that the bees are in some kind of trouble but... When I let it slip once or twice that most keepers poison their hives, I noticed that people were really shocked that "natural, raw honey" comes from hives where the bees were dosed with pesticides . I WOULD BE SHOCKED TOO!

    Do we, as beekeepers have any responsibility to inform the public about possible toxic exposure from what has been marketed as pure and natural- for decades?
    Matt
    I must be "John Q. Public", because I didn't know we would even THINK such a thing, let alone do it.
    http://www.beesource.com/news/article/adeefined.htm

    Matt, I am not sure who your beekeeper mentor was, but I would dump everything you were taught and start over. Find someone new that knows what they are doing. Or if you want, start asking questions in here more. There are so many smarter minds than mine, in here, that will give you more guidance than you could ask for.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,464

    Default

    I second my own response. Do I hear a third?
    Regards, Barry

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,464

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglerock View Post
    I must be "John Q. Public", because I didn't know we would even THINK such a thing, let alone do it.
    http://www.beesource.com/news/article/adeefined.htm
    I think that is called an "inconvenient truth."
    Regards, Barry

  13. #13

    Default

    Mendocino, I'd suggest putting together a pamphlet together for your visitors. Inform them of all the poisons you use for your bees. Explain to them which ones are approved for use and which ones are from a back of the envelope method. This will greatly decrease the perhaps ignorant questions from JQP.

    For those that ask me, and many do not, I do explain what I use to treat my hives with. I do not share with them what others use but rather say I only eat honey if I know the management practices of the producer.

    I think the price of local honey managed conscienciously is generally underpriced. Large beeks just do things differently. http://www.beesource.com/news/article/adeefined.htm

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Tulsa, OK
    Posts
    3,455

    Default

    Third.

    Fact is, commercial beeks put stuff in their hives that most people would not want to eat if they knew. IMO, if you are small producer/don't treat with hard chemicals, you should feel free to tell all you know about your honey and your methods compared to what people can buy in the grocery store. That includes the localness of the honey, the extent that it is heated, the extent that it is filtered and certainly what chemicals are likely to be in it. Then, by all means, charge what your product is worth in the eye of the consumer.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C.
    Posts
    5,080

    Default

    >>>>R U ready to get mad?<<<<

    Yes, to find out a fellow beek would spew out such garbage to the public is enough to make the pope use profanity. We have enough problems without you doing such a disservice as that. Poisoned bees do not make excess honey crops for us to harvest. Any bees that are poisoned won't be the ones that made the honey we are selling.

    Barry, I third the notion.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Snowmass, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    2,496

    Default

    Barry,

    Actually I wish they would post what all is in beef, pork and chicken also. The truth is I hunt most of my meat (true free range) and buy the rest from organic ranches which in this area there are several of. I buy most of my veggies from local gardeners and actually trade honey for them so the cost is minimal which is nice.

    I have heard that some beeks use some toxic chemicals (but don't know any personally) and that there is a build up in the combs and that it can transmit in micro million parts into honey through bee to comb to honey contact, but that being said, there is a new breed of commercial beeks like myself and others in this area and other areas I am sure that prefer to treat with essential oils and though other means like using oxalic acid and drone comb cut out methods.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    mendocino county N Calif
    Posts
    34

    Default

    Hi Everyone,

    Thanks Barry-I got your back.

    Well, I did indeed iritate a couple of people. sorry...

    Lets try to get this right...

    I (personally) am a:

    Garbage spewing, ignorant, self hating, in need of mentoring, fool because I stated what appears to be very obvious: Some keepers use mitecides and prophalactic antibiotics in their beehives. The general public is unaware of this fact. Then you guys ARE saying the people should NOT be told what their foods are exposed to. Hmm -interesting definition of integrity. Low levels of avoidable toxic contaminants are ok as long as the people dont know about them AND the guy who merely mentions opening a conversation between honey producers should be shouted down and insulted. OK fine.

    But there are keepers with integrity.

    Bayer and others told us to use poison to "treat hives" Only the survivor super mites made it into the gene pool.

    Translation for the simple : treatment:it stopped working.

    Now do you want another "treatment" to misuse?
    What's going to happen then? Demand another and another.
    We as an industry are no farther along than 20 years ago- with the exception of VSH and russian projects.

    Anti biotics- there are relatively few effective antibiotics. When we eat small doses everyday in milk, eggs, chicken and yes honey, they too become ineffective. Again natural selection. Bad bugs survive and reproduce.

    Mitecides are indeed poison by definition. they kill mites.
    Suposedly below the threshhold to kill whole hives- according to the US Govt and corporations...and you put your blind trust in them?

    If youre not aware of all the bathtub concoctions (Taktic, Mavrik)that some commercial guys "treat" their hives with then Im not the only who could be called ignorant.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C.
    Posts
    5,080

    Default

    If you are selling a used car, do you tell the prospect all the things wrong with it, or all the things right with it? It's that simple.

    If you were to take a tour of one of each type of food processing plants, you would likely starve to death before you could eat anything bought at a store.

    I order eggs for breakfast, do you order unborn chicken embryos? There's just some things that aren't spoken about in public circles.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fresno California USA
    Posts
    2,479

    Default Ignorance

    Ignorance breeds fear. I have spent my whole life keeping bees and there is nothing I am prouder of than the honey my bees produce. It is subject to rigorous inspection prior to purchase and packing. Who in the HECK is this johnny come lately at the FLEA MARKET and what is he doing demeaning my product?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Venango/Crawford Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,709

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G. Laury View Post
    Ignorance breeds fear. I have spent my whole life keeping bees and there is nothing I am prouder of than the honey my bees produce. It is subject to rigorous inspection prior to purchase and packing. Who in the HECK is this johnny come lately at the FLEA MARKET and what is he doing demeaning my product?
    I never used anything in my hives and don't plan on it. Maybe I should add that to my labels next year. Poison fee hives/poison free honey - or, toxin free

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