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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    VENTURA, California, USA
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    Big Grin 'Don't feed thymolated syrup before using Apiguard. Apiguard causes robbing!

    I have been feeding thymolated syrup and I noticed that when I drove into the yard that the bees were searching all over my truck. I had placed a small piece of the aluminum sided cardboard with a small amount of Apiguard on it from the last application that was thrown out the entrance by the bees. At first I dismissed the observation. I thought to myself about why would the bees be attracted to my foam coffee cup? I counted over 27 bees in the cup. I had tossed the Apiguard cardboard into the cup. It was onley about one square inch in size.
    Two days later I opened an Apiguard tub to apply a 1/2 dose to a single brood chamber hive and a double hive. The robber bees did not become attracted to the tub untile I removed the shrink wrap and lid. :mad: Then all purgatory broke lose! The robbing bees landed on the top of the Apiguard as I was mixing it as per instructions and piled up about an inch deep around the bottom of the tub!
    The next morning I checked to see how the 1/2 dose was working as I did not want the bees to abscond and the robbing was furious all around the single and the double. Both hives had entrances reduced to one inch to prevent robbing
    It's obvious that the robber bees became conditioned to seek a free meal by the smell of thymol.
    I have a queen mating nuc yard within 50' of the robbing and they were unscathed!.
    I hope this helps to inform you about Apiguard and thymolated syrup.
    Regards,
    Ernie Lucas Apiaries
    Last edited by BEES4U; 09-17-2008 at 06:49 AM. Reason: DATA
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  2. #2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    It's obvious that the robber bees became conditioned to seek a free meal by the smell of thymol.
    Having used Apiguard in about a hundred hives over the last couple of seasons I havn't ever seen anything like you did. I believe that you're probably right that it is some sort of conditioning. Do you have any thoughts as to how that conditioning might have occurred?
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    Default

    So you blame this on Apiguard. Wow. Great slam on the product.

    I see it a different way....but lets just leave it at that.

    So tell me...where did you buy thymolated syrup made by apiguard?

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    Do you have any thoughts as to how that conditioning might have occurred?
    I think I do know the answer to my own question. I just didn't read the original post closely enough.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  5. #5
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    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    Default

    I also see how the conditioning of the bees to associate feed with the smell of thymol was the real factor. I'm just wondering how you can title a post "apiguard causes robbing". Apiguard had nothing to do with "why" the bees robbed. And to the casual reader, its the headline that stands out, and perhaps will view this thread with negative views towards the product apiguard.

    "Thymol conditioning causes robbing" perhaps is a bit more the truth.
    Last edited by BjornBee; 09-16-2008 at 11:03 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Jenison, MI
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    1,514

    Default you are sitting on a gold mine!

    So now start moving from thymolated syrup to syrup mixed with various types of explosives.

    Then sell them to the department of homeland security for $10,000 per hive....

    Shucks...don't need tasers to take the terrorists down! How about 1000 bees?



    It is all fascinating, nonetheless. I applied to all my hive at the same time so that wasn't a problem.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    VENTURA, California, USA
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    Default Do you have any thoughts as to how that conditioning might have occurred?

    The condition response was in the syrup that contained thymol. It was fed in one gallon buckets.
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  8. #8
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    Oct 2007
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    Default Shucks...don't need tasers to take the terrorists down! How about 1000 bees?

    Containers filled with bees have been used as bee bombs on the enemy.
    We could over spray the enemy with lemongraas syrup and then release the bees.
    LOL
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Default I'm just wondering how you can title a post "apiguard causes robbing".

    Well as usual Mr. "B" wants to critique a topic.
    I saw, I observed, I recorded and I warned others about the thymol issue.
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    VENTURA, California, USA
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    Default So tell me...where did you buy thymolated syrup made by apiguard?

    If you would read the posting I stated that the bees had been fed thymolated syrup,
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    If you would read the posting I stated that the bees had been fed thymolated syrup,
    Ernie

    I recognized the fact that the bees associated thymol with feed.

    But apiguard is the name of a product. It was not apiguard's name, or their product, that caused this situation.

    And there is a world of difference in the meaning by saying "Apiguard causes Robbing" and "Apiguard caused robbing!".

    Ernie...stay with me. I'll post a thread and see if you can see what I'm talking about.
    Last edited by BjornBee; 09-16-2008 at 01:50 PM.

  12. #12
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    Jenison, MI
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    Default

    Forget robbing.

    I think you just found a way to treat a hive without cracking a lid!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fresno California USA
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    2,479

    Default BS4U Contributions

    Ernie thanks for all your sharing of information and experience. Since I joined I haven't seen anyone else so helpful and considerate.

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G. Laury View Post
    Ernie thanks for all your sharing of information and experience. Since I joined I haven't seen anyone else so helpful and considerate.
    I'm going to have to agree with BB. This isn't about Ernie's helpfulness. In fact his good reputation makes it worse. Some busy beeks may just look at the subject, see it was written by Ernie and based on his reputation take it at face value.

    BB's complaint is about a poor choice in subject line. Its pretty hard for me to see how anyone could blame Apiguard for the robbing.
    A better subject might have been 'Don't feed thymolated syrup before using Apiguard'
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  15. #15
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    Default Its pretty hard for me to see how anyone could blame Apiguard for the robbing.

    I would suggest that you try feeding some thmolated syrup 1st and then apply the Apiguard 2nd.

    Make an observation and then a deduction. Perhaps you will see the trigeering of robbing by the stronger percentage of thymol as it fumes the hive.
    Do you use Apiguard or thymolated syrup?
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    Do you use Apiguard or thymolated syrup?
    I use Apiguard only. Never prompted a robbing frenzy.

    So, Ernie, you didn't think my suggested subject line would have been more appropriate?
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  17. #17
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    I'm going to have to agree with BB. This isn't about Ernie's helpfulness. In fact his good reputation makes it worse. Some busy beeks may just look at the subject, see it was written by Ernie and based on his reputation take it at face value.

    BB's complaint is about a poor choice in subject line. Its pretty hard for me to see how anyone could blame Apiguard for the robbing.
    A better subject might have been 'Don't feed thymolated syrup before using Apiguard'

    Give it up beeman. It's no use.

  18. #18
    Join Date
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    Default Mite control

    No brand name,s. included or endorsed except to clearify data.
    Let us see if we can agree on the following:
    Mite control reduces the winter cluster.
    Mite control causes absconding.
    Mite control is reduced at low temperatures.
    Mite control is temperature dependent.
    Mite control of bees is correlated to the owners knowledge of grams or ml per application.
    Mite control causes queen loss.
    No mite control causes winter losses.

    Regards,
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  19. #19
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    Default

    If thats directed at me Ernie...I'll have to pass, on any agreement.

    I have found out that since I don't use mite controls, (of course we need to define mite controls on your end)...anyways, with no treatments....my clusters are bigger, I have healthy bees, temperature is not a concern, etc.

    And I must say,,, that was the biggest "subject change" I have seen in awhile.

    My bees without mite control (treatments) are chemical free, have clean comb, and are doing great. Since getting off treatments, I have seen a fraction of the losses that I once had, and a fraction of those who sit and cry the blues (while discussing this years treatments), at the bee meetings I attend.

    The money I now save on treatments, goes into other areas such as requeening and other IPM efforts, that produce positive results and pay for themselves. Treatments cost money now in product and labor, and many times, cost a whole lot more down the road.

    So no Ernie, I can't really agree with about anything you just said.
    Last edited by BjornBee; 09-17-2008 at 07:40 AM.

  20. #20

    Default

    Ernie, I'm not going to copy your entire list. Frankly, if its directed at me, I don't have any idea how it fits in with this discussion. Maybe I'm just too dumb.
    I only asked a simple question.
    You didn't think my suggested subject line would have been more appropriate?
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

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