Tailgater 1

**iddee** · 09-14-2008, 11:15 AM

All visitors are appreciated. Some when they come, others when they go.

We all should think about which one we are.

**BjornBee** · 09-14-2008, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by MIKI

Bjorne never passes up a chance to take a shot at me as we already know there is something about me that rubs him the wrong way. Some day Barry I will do the leg work and provide those user names I just have to ask on a couple of different forums/lists and wait. The total truth of the matter is that there are members that thrive on conflict (Bjorne for one) that need the TG forum as a personal playground. Another fact is the two main things that drive men apart are religion and politics hell they are responsible for most wars. The last fact is that hosting the TG forum is the difference between being a perfectly healthy bee forum or one with a spot of cancer that surgery could fix.

Contrary to the lies Bjorne would have everyone believe NO ONE I know of is trashing the forum as a whole just the trailer trash section of cancer that needs to be excised.

There are enough forums on politics and religion and any other subject you want to argue about that would love to have more members. The forum would be much more professional if it just stuck to bees.

Personal attacks...where? I stated fact, backed up by proof.

Lies...care to comment where? Or will you pass on these comments also, like the one's you are side stepping from Barry also?

Whether people use tailgater or not, thats their choice. What I did was make a point about those that slide in every so often, degrade beesource, with the same repeated garbage, and suggest they would be better off elsewhere. Sorry if that rubs you wrong MIKI. I stated facts, and then while your complaining because the shoe fits, you add your own attack line on me.

Have a nice day MIKI. See ya around...

**magnet-man** · 09-14-2008, 03:04 PM

So is there a problem splitting tailgater? That would give the 40% of users not using tailgater because of the R&P someplace to go and Bjornbee and others will still have their playground. What do you say Bjornbee and Miki? Can you live with this compromise?

**Keith Benson** · 09-14-2008, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by MIKI

as we already know

Whoa there sonny - you got a mouse in yer pocket? Careful with the "we" business. "We" know no such thing.

There are enough forums on politics and religion and any other subject you want to argue about that would love to have more members. The forum would be much more professional if it just stuck to bees.

Here is the deal. Unlike a listserv where things get delivered into your personal mailbox, this BB is such that you have to actually request the information you receive. You will have to summon it from the server to actually be offended by it. So I for one cannot possibly imagine whay people cannot simply not look at posts from tailgater. Or even visit the thing but only open those posts that interest you. I would guess that 99% of the posts are aeasily identified by their title in terms of their religious or political content.

Does anyone here actually read every single post? If there are some that are on topic that you skip, why can't you skip the off topic ones?

I think the idea that there are political boards out there misses one very important fact. Regardless of our political or religious affiliations or lack thereof - we all share an interest - bees. Ever think that perhaps some beekeepers want to discuss these things with other beekeepers just like folks that gather in other venues for other reasons often discuss similar issues? In many senses I think people see eachother here as their peers and friends and that is whom they wish to discuss these issues with, as well as how to rear queens, the best way to super, kill AHB, make a frame jig and such.

I think the fact that there are non-bee discussions speaks to the idea that this is not just a BB, but a community.

Keith

**BjornBee** · 09-14-2008, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by magnet-man

So is there a problem splitting tailgater? That would give the 30% of users not using tailgater because of the R&P someplace to go and Bjornbee and others will still have their playground. What do you say Bjornbee and Miki? Can you live with this compromise?

MM, perhaps you should read my new thread that show a few details that debunk the whining (not talking about you

)....

**magnet-man** · 09-14-2008, 03:54 PM

Bjornbee, I am not sure what post you are refering to. Can you give me a link?

**BjornBee** · 09-14-2008, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by magnet-man

Bjornbee, I am not sure what post you are refering to. Can you give me a link?

http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222449

**magnet-man** · 09-14-2008, 05:08 PM

I am sorry, but I don't understand if this answers my question.

**BjornBee** · 09-14-2008, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by magnet-man

I am sorry, but I don't understand if this answers my question.

My point is...that there would be no questions at all to answer if but for a few making a big deal about this. The facts do not support comments of overbearing, bullies, or anything else to suggest that a few are keeping the masses out of tailgater. And thats whether its the tone or anything else such as "poster domination". I personally post on less than 10% of the posts, and until recent with the Obama and Palin debate, have posted on average in only 7% of all tailgater threads longterm. And I bet that is the same for most.

It was suggested that a few, dominate tailgater. And I don't see this by simply looking at the facts.

This discussion (not intended for MM) is a bunch of overhyped crying. And unrealistic requests from Barry by supposed intelligent members who can not even seem to scan the recent posts or new posts, and decide if one thread is worth skipping over.

**NeilV** · 09-14-2008, 09:10 PM

Keith sums it up for me: "In many senses I think people see eachother here as their peers and friends and that is whom they wish to discuss these issues with, as well as how to rear queens, the best way to super, kill AHB, make a frame jig and such. . . . this is not just a BB, but a community."

**MIKI** · 09-15-2008, 05:03 AM

Bjorne,

The lie you are telling is that people (Me) are trashing Beesource as a whole. This is not true I am trashing the tailgater forum as that is what it is trash! You tend to add bits to what people say, just your small way of putting gas on a fire you are very good at it because you thrive on this stuff.

Keith Benson,

You must not have been here long enough to have seen the history between me and Bjorne.

When i logged on to check out this thread i had to answer Pm's first which support what I wrote about Bjorne above so i am not the only one who sees this is just a playground for conflict for him. Anyway its mind over matter I do not mind because he don't matter to me!

Barry
I am not side stepping anything this will require some research as it goes way back to when i joined this board at around 1500 members and DR. R, Daisy and FBM were here.

I still believe the tailgater forum is dragging beesource and keeping it from perfection.

My reason is that often the trouble caused spills over to other forums which is detrimental to the good order and productivity of the BB as a whole!!

**BjornBee** · 09-15-2008, 05:27 AM

MIKI,
So your going back over 5 years to 2003, and going to list every person that left for whatever reason?

Dr R., I think left for reasons different than tailgater. (Which is the issue at hand) I never knew Dr. R to hang out on tailgater.

Daisy may have left, but not for side-stepping issues, as she battled and mixed it up the best she could, and probably enjoyed it. I think she left for other reasons.

I think it's common for members to leave one board or another, every so often for many different reasons. And I think that many can grasp the concept of tailgater and if they choose to stay out of that forum, they can certainly do that.

What I find interesting is your continued negative comments towards beesource, repeating over and over again, how you think beesource is something less than, how did you just say... "keeping it from perfection", and your constant stance that a few left due to Barry not doing an unrealistic job you demand from him. Of all the people who "left", you are the only one that peeks in from time to time, and are sure to get involved with any trashing of beesource, thats for sure!

I made the following comments (link posted on page 4 of this thread) based on statements you made in Jan 2008. It was not the first or the last. But I posted this to show my response to your constant bashing of beesource. If that makes me a liar, than so be it.

>>>>If I was Barry, I would be more concerned about the open attitude and continual trashing of beesource, instead of the differing viewpoints. Its a real shame that we have to be reminded of such matters every-time someone has a beef or personal gripe. If I was Barry, I would ask people to be positive towards beesource or move on. But to allow this type comments, that beesource is no longer a great site for whatever reason, is truly the most damaging of all.<<<<

**MIKI** · 09-15-2008, 06:12 AM

First No I am not going to go through the member list person by person as you said "You think" I do not have the time for that I will just ask for comments on other places i know the topic has arisen on. Again you inflate the fire with little additions of your own fiction No one said anything about Barry or the job he does moderating this site and yes I peak in once in a while and will continue to do so. I tried once again to be civil with you and ask your opinion and again you have started a fire. You have made my opinion of the trash forum your personal battle but then again conflict is what you thrive on you need it to reassure yourself that you are in some way important or productive in actuallity YOU have been counter productive when you take the post personal. I stated an OPINION and you turned it into a stupid conflict as a matter of fact last time you choose to attack one of my opinions I think I asked you leave me out of your comments and I would do the same for you. Well Bjorne I am tired of being a toy on your inferiorty complex playground hence forth I will hold to the orginal agreement. Holding on to that much anger will someday put you in an early grave. I will keep you in my prayers and hope you get well soon, but for now Bjorne once again this is boring so I am done with you.
God bless and Good luck

Barry

I know you are intelligent enough to see that the comment about the trash forum holding back Beesource as opinion and not in anyway meant to "Trash' beesource as a whole. if the comment were not true we would not have this issue over and over again.

**BjornBee** · 09-15-2008, 06:28 AM

"anger".....are you kidding? I'm having a blast. But I also have a great attitude, think beesource is great, think taligater is great, think the U.S.A is great (and I don't even need to ask others to remind me of that!)

Anyways....no anger here. Just good times, good learning, great debate, and what a great day it is today! Gotta work some bees. I'll check back later.

**Barry** · 09-15-2008, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by MIKI

I am not side stepping anything this will require some research as it goes way back to when i joined this board at around 1500 members and DR. R, Daisy and FBM were here.

Miki -

As to these three members, Dr. R left the board for a period of time due to issues within his FGMO forum. He has since been back. Daisy was banned for inappropriate posting. I don't know who FBM is. I'm still interested in knowing if you know of members who actually left the beesource forums (on their own) due to the way Tailgater is.

**nursebee** · 09-15-2008, 07:30 AM

Lots of people use tailgator. If I did not like it or thought poorly of it I certainly would not call it trash, perhaps I would just leave it alone or say I did not like it. Otherwise i could be hurtful.

There are more tactful ways to do things

**sqkcrk** · 09-15-2008, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Keith Benson

Regardless of our political or religious affiliations or lack thereof - we all share an interest - bees. Ever think that perhaps some beekeepers want to discuss these things with other beekeepers just like folks that gather in other venues for other reasons often discuss similar issues? In many senses I think people see eachother here as their peers and friends and that is whom they wish to discuss these issues with, as well as how to rear queens, the best way to super, kill AHB, make a frame jig and such.

I think the fact that there are non-bee discussions speaks to the idea that this is not just a BB, but a community.

Keith

I like the way you put this Keith. I have a core group of beekeeping friends who I get together w/ every now and then, over Chinese food usually. We often spend an hour of two in each others company. And when the "what's going on w/ your bees" or "the crop and the price of honey" conversations run their course we get into the current events, politics and sometimes religion. And afterwards we are still friends who depend on each other for more than beekeeping related situations. We've helped each other in many times of need from a child w/ brain cancer to personal injury to weddings and funerals, meetings and dinners. We are a community. Me and my close friends and me and my cyber friends. We are all connected in numerous ways. This sort of conversation is something I value and if Tailgater is deleted from Beesource alot of its' heart and passion will go out of it for me.

Maybe Barry could install a tag line to Tailgater. Something like, "Enter at your own risk." or "Beware all who enter here." But I don't think that it is necassary.

Peace

**iddee** · 09-15-2008, 09:16 AM

As I was making my last round to say goodbye to many friends before leaving Germany in 1970, I was telling one establishment owner how much I had enjoyed him and his place of business, he floored me with this statement.....

"Some people are just naturally easy to be friendly to."

Miki, I feel you should look at this statement in reverse and see if it applies to you. I leave many threads on tailgater, but never leave the site. I think any normal adult should be able to do the same, or even leave tailgater totally without leaving beesource. If not, the site may be better off without those individuals anyway.