Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

Extractor Size for number of hives.

34K views 55 replies 36 participants last post by  Acebird 
#1 ·
What are the recommendations as far as how many hives an extractor of a given size will handle? I realize that if one plans to grow you want to buy an extractor which is larger and also that the length of the harvest will vary in different parts of the country, but I am trying to get an idea. For ballpark figures can you say that an extractor of a given size can reasonably handle twice the number of hives as it's number of frames?

2 frame for up to 4 hives.
4 frame for up to 8 hives.
9 frame for up to 18 hives.
20 frame for up to 40 hives.

What as been your experience?

Thank you for any feedback.

Larry
 
#5 ·
Thank you for the replies. Perhaps I should word this differently. How about:
How many hives do you have?
How large is your extractor?
Is it motorized?
Do you feel it is too small, too large or just right for your operation?

I am just trying to get some ideas.

Thank you.

Larry
 
#8 ·
I have an old Root 3 frame that my grandfather bought in the '40s. I saw one like it in a museum, but mine is in better shape, tho it did make me feel old. I have had up to 12 hives. No idea how many supers I did tho, since that was long ago when I was a kid.
Since beekeeping is a hobby for me, I never worried out how long it took to extract.
Howard
 
#10 ·
Two frame extractor

I have both an old electric extractor, 2 frame Root, and a Junior Dadant extractor, again 2 frame. We used the hand-crank extractor this past weekend on only a few frames. After uncapping we spun for 10 minutes per side before flipping the frames. We tried 6 minutes and 8 minutes per side but it didn't seem to get all of the honey out. Anyone else agree with the timing?

In the future we are planning on 20 minutes for each pair of frames we extract. If you're extracting 60 frames that would be around 10 hours of spinning. I think my arm would get tired. I haven't used the electric extractor but I could see doing other things while it is extracting. It might make the 10 hours go a bit faster and not make one of my arms larger than the other.

Oh, in case anyone is wondering, we bought the hand-crank extractor before we knew that we would be given a motorized extractor. Hey... can't hurt to have two, right? :)

Keith
 
#18 ·
I have both an old electric extractor, 2 frame Root, and a Junior Dadant extractor, again 2 frame. We used the hand-crank extractor this past weekend on only a few frames. After uncapping we spun for 10 minutes per side before flipping the frames. We tried 6 minutes and 8 minutes per side but it didn't seem to get all of the honey out. Anyone else agree with the timing?
...
Keith
10 minutes per side?? Yikes!! Are you trying to get them completely dry?? That is 20 minutes for 2 frames, that would take an hour and a half to do one super! No, I don't agree with the timing!!!

I've got a 2 frame dadant extractor, and I spin each side maybe a minute or so, giving it some speed. If I can't get it all in a minute or two then the bees can clean it out, not worth the bother. If I can get 95% + of the honey out then I'm satisfied. Some of the foundationless combs crack in the middle from the speed but the bees can fix that...

Now if you are extracting in 40F temps, or if this is a new excersize plan (spinning??!!), then that is a different story...:rolleyes:

Rick
 
#11 ·
fuzzy writes:
a. It should depend on how many supers that you think you will extract, not how many hives you have.

tecumseh suggest: how many super and over what time frame you might wish to extract.

as an example a hobbist might lean towards a bit bigger extractor if they knew they only had a short period of time (say a weekend) to extract.

other variable:
tangent vs radial.

hand cranked vs motorized.

my current history:
I have an old 4 frame hand cranked tangential extractor that has been converted to a 10 frame motorized radial. when I had 10 to 12 hives the old tangential worked fine... although these old arms did get tired. at about 40 hives I motorized and had a new reel built. this seems to be adequate for the limited number of supers* I extract during a given day.

at the current time I am likely more constrained by cappings than by extracting capacity.

*the crop here is very limited and I only pull enough supers so that all the wets are set back out by the end of each day.
 
#13 ·
I have had a kelly 12-20 since I started with 6 hives, it save a lot on cranking a handle but now I am looking into uncappers and other thing to make extraction easier and faster and now that my hives have grown in numbers and when I get about 100 more hives to justify buying one I am looking like a kid in a toy store when I see this in the link below, probably my next venture http://www.cowenmfg.com/store_items_view.asp?itemid=19255
 
#14 ·
My second year, I borrowed a 2-frame tangential and (for me) this seemed WAY too slow. By my third year I had a 9-frame radial hand crank. I now have 20 hives and have floated up the idea to my wife about getting a motorized extractor. I agree with the statement that the uncapping is a real bottleneck, but if one has a motorized extractor, then uncapping can proceed while the extractor was running. I usually do everything myself, but last year I had a friend come over and spin the extractor and wow what a difference that made.

My recommendation is go with a 9-frame radial, and if you can afford it get a motorized one. I may have a nice 9-frame hand-crank up for sale soon!!
 
#16 ·
My first full season I had 4 hives only and I hand cranked everything with a older borrowed 4 frame tangential extractor.

I hated doing that so much, that I decided it was either buy a good extractor or give up beekeeping - because I was never going to do that again.

I bought a 9 frame radial motorized extractor, and have had no regrets.

Others have suggested bigger is better, but there is one downside of the bigger ones that I have found. The bigger the extractor is, the more honey is caught up in the machine and wasted when you go to clean up. The old 4 frame one wasted only 4-6 oz of honey. My larger 9 frame leaves at least a pound of honey in the bottom that I can't get out.
 
#17 ·
Troy, as I posted in another thread...

There is no reason to leave a couple of quarts in the bottom of the extractor.
When I am done for the day, I pull the reel out and set it aside. I take a clean stiff window squeege and wipe the sides of the extractor. Voila, no honey on the sides. Then I take a smaller 6inch squeege, tilt the extractor and scrape the bottom to the honey gate. Then a stiff plastic kitchen spatula gets most of whats left through the gate.

When all is said and done, it takes 5 minutes and there is less than 2 oz left in the extractor (bottom and sides). I get $6-7 per lb for honey. So I just got an extra $20 for very little effort.

Fuzzy
 
#19 ·
Fuzzy, It's funny you say that about the spatula.....

I have noticed too much stick to the sides. I let it run down for an hour or two and so the residual honey is all in the bottom. I also set a book under one leg to get it tilted over toward the gate too.

I've used the spatula too, but there is a lip between the bottom of my extractor and the gate tube and no matter how hard I try there is a fair amount of honey that gets lost right there.

I suppose using the spatula I have minimized that waste and it is down to only about 4 to 6 ounces, but still - it is a waste.
 
#20 ·
I also figure on 10 mins per side when extracting. I extract with the extracting room and honey at 85-90 degrees. I agree this may be overkill but I can still see honey being spun out up to about 8-9 mins. How long do others spin frames?

Troy,

When you are done extracting let the bees clean out the extractor. This way the honey is not wasted.
 
#21 ·
I tried that, but hundreds got stuck in the extractor and died. The mess was worse.

Not to mention all the bees in the air. I live in a near zero lot line community, and my neighbors are not really pleased about my beekeeping endeavors.

PS - My bees are not in my yard.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I've got 5 producing hives and I use a manual reversable 2 frame Kelly extractor. It works just fine for me. My son and I harvested just over 1,000 pounds this year. The real bottleneck that I've also found is the uncapping. I use an electric uncapping knife and although faster and easier than a serated bread knife I find that if I try to move too fast I end up crushing some of the very comb I'm trying to save for them to refill. I use 9 frames in a 10 frame super and that helps a whole lot. It's when they are drawing out fresh comb on new foundation that they sometimes have shallow comb that takes time to upcap with a cappings scratcher.
 
#23 ·
I currently have 20 hives, and I modified my four frame extractor to electric motor recently - I'd wear out my arm spinning manually based on honey production this year, as I get tennis elbow (extractor elbow) easily. This winter, I'm going to modify it to radial to get it to 10 frames, so I can maybe keep the extractor a couple more years, I've posted this before, this is how I converted to electric (thanks tecumseh for ideas!):

This year I converted my hand crank model to motor-driven. I have a Dadant Little Wonder extractor which no longer wanted to grip the shaft with the silly little slip-clutch handle and tapered bearing which they provide. For replacement parts (a little bearing), they wanted $25, and since the unit was practically new when I bought it, I thought that the bearing would give out as soon as I replaced it. They wanted big buck$ for the motor kit - in the hundreds, so I went to a salvage store in the area and found a 24-volt DC wheelchair motor. The shaft on the extractor is 5/8", the wheelchair motor has a geared-down offset shaft at 7/8". I welded a few pulleys together to get to those shaft diameters, attached the pulleys to the shafts, and mounted the motor onto a board which mounts in the two holes on the Little Wonder top.

For power, I hooked up a car battery charger to the motor. Since the motor is a 24 volt DC unit, the charger works fine - actually the extractor rotates at the correct rpm using the 12 volt charger. The nice thing about it is with the battery charger, I actually have three speeds, as the charger has three settings: a trickle charge 1.5amp, medium amperage charge 10amp, and a start engine setting 30amp. I start out slowly at the trickle setting, and then for maximum extraction top it off at 30amp. When I'm done with extraction, I can use the battery charger for its intended purpose - charging batteries.

Total cost is $15 for the motor, $7 for the pulleys, and a slightly worn belt and scrap marine plywood which I already had lying around gathering dust. Put it together in a little over an hour, including the welding. Works better than I anticipated - no blow outs on comb, and no sore arms!:)

I run the range from low, gradually increasing to the high speed for about 5-6 minutes each side. A half dozen supers the other day had such thick honey (Purple Loosestrife and goldenrod - bright yellow combs) that I had to run for 8-9 minutes each side, but that isn't typical.

MM
 
#24 ·
troy writes:
Others have suggested bigger is better

tecumseh: well yea... it must be a guy thingee?

but really troy I have pretty much dertermined if I need more extracting capacity I will just add a second small capacity extractor. two should be almost twice as fast.... right?

mapman writes:
thanks tecumseh for ideas!):

tecumeh: you are most welcome.. I am glad the description or pictures gave you some inspiration.
 
#25 ·
One of the main things to consider is... uncapping speed....

To have an efficient flow you will need to find an extractor (or two depending on the number of hives) that can match or be close to your uncapping speed.

If you are working alone and uncapping by hand.... you don't need a big extractor... you can only work so fast anyway. If you have a motorized unit.... you can continue to uncap while the first batch is spinning. If its a hand-crank unit... then obviously you can only do one of those functions at a time... (unless you have help)

I harvested around 3200lbs this year and my bottleneck is the extractor. I have an older cowen uncapper and an old Kelley 12/21 frame radial extractor. The uncapper works fast and I'm left waiting for the frames to be done. Next year I plan on getting a second extractor so that even if one is spinning I can be loading the other.

I think often people try to pick an extractor without thinking about how they plan to uncap. If you only have a few hives then it doesn't matter. The more hives you have the more efficiency you MUST build into the process or you end up with alot of idle time.

These comments are more directed at someone looking at it from a business perspective (sideline etc). Time is money. Look at the entire process and plan ahead for potential growth before making a decision.
 
#27 ·
> Now if you are extracting in 40F temps, or if this is a new excersize plan (spinning??!!), then that is a different story...

Right. Extracting times vary with ambient temperature. Can't talk about one without including the other. Sometimes I extract with a hand cranker in a 100 degree shed. About 1 or two minutes at that temp.
 
#28 ·
A lot depends on how much money you have to spare and what kind of deal you can find on an extractor. In general I'll agree with Richard Taylor:

"A comb honey beekeeper really needs, in addition to his bees and the usual apiary equipment and tools, only one other thing, and that is a pocket knife. The day you go into producing extracted honey, on the other hand, you must begin to think not only of an extractor, which is a costly machine used only a relatively minute part of the year, but also of uncapping equipment, strainers, settling tanks, wax melters, bottle filling equipment, pails and utensils galore and endless things. Besides this you must have a place to store supers of combs, subject to damage by moths and rodents and, given the nature of beeswax, very subject to destruction by fire. And still more: You must begin to think in terms of a whole new building, namely, a honey house, suitably constructed, supplied with power, and equipped....

"All this seems obvious enough, and yet time after time I have seen novice beekeepers, as soon as they had built their apiaries up to a half dozen or so hives, begin to look around for an extractor. It is as if one were to establish a small garden by the kitchen door, and then at once begin looking for a tractor to till it with. Unless then, you have, or plan eventually to have, perhaps fifty or more colonies of bees, you should try to resist looking in bee catalogs at the extractors and other enchanting and tempting tools that are offered and instead look with renewed fondness at your little pocket knife, so symbolic of the simplicity that is the mark of every truly good life."

Basically I'd say you can do fine without an extractor for up to eight hives or more. And then, if I were buying new, I would not buy anything less than a 9/18 motorized. Extracting two frames or even four frames at a time is far to frustrating for me and a four frame extractor is usually not half the price of an 18 frame.

I held out for a 9/18 motorized. That was 2000 and I had been keeping bees for 26 years by then. But I stayed between 2 and 7 hives during that time.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top