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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    33

    Default Third deep, where should I put it?

    Summers almost gone and autumn should be here in about a month but I want to add another deep to my hive.

    I'm thnking to put it at the bottom under neath the already drawn deeps and where the entrance is so the bees will go through it to get to brood and honey supplies.

    I'm also going to feed so they hurry up and build the foundation.

    All correct?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Cambria County, PA US
    Posts
    404

    Default

    You have three possibilities:

    Under - I think that this may cause it to be ignored, but I could be wrong. They will defintely be forced to cross it. This might be the biggest unknown of your three choices, and probably a large risk. You would be puting it below your brood nest, and unless they move down into it, they won't have access to anything in it over winter.

    Between - Oh they'll probably get started at drawing it alright, but I think this might be the biggest risk of the three. With cold nights coming, you may be splitting your brood nest. Also if they don't get it all drawn, you've split your resources for winter into two separated halves. Very risky if it were tried in my area (harsh winters, probably as bad as your winters).

    Over - It'll be treated as a super, and if they do use it, it'll be available for them as they move upward over the course of the winter. Probably the safest best of the three. You can also take it back off if they don't need it, or if they don't draw it.

    Just my 2-cents. I hope this helps. Good luck in your decision and let us know how everything goes.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Cambria County, PA US
    Posts
    404

    Default

    Ok, well, I guess there's more like 4.5 or so...

    Amidst - checkerboarding them or semi-checkerboarding. I'm not sure that I'm a smart enough beek to estimate the risk with that one. The risk level probably depends on whether you're still in a good flow, how long it will last, and to what degree you checkerboard the frames. In my area I could see this one going pretty wrong. It's hard to undo after the fact if it goes wrong too.

    Again, I hope this helps. Maybe someone who has been in the same situation that you are in a climate that matches yours can chime in as well.

    Good luck.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Barry, TX USA
    Posts
    861

    Default

    What is the purpose or desire for adding this third deep hive body? It's late in the season and the bees probably will not get it all drawn and filled before winter?

    If you're intending to use it as a honey super, it probably will not be worked and filled.

    If you're intending to add to the brood nest it would have to go under or in between the existing hive bodies. Under the nest it will not be filled and be a lure for mice. It might also cause other unforeseen problems. Putting it in between the existing halves of the hive will split the brood nest from the winter stores perhaps making sure that the hive does not survive the winter.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    London, England
    Posts
    33

    Default

    I'm pretty sure theres still a good flow going.

    What exactly is checkerboarding? I'm imagining it means moving frames with honey and so ummm, well, making them into some form of checkerboard format..

    I basically want to have as many drawn frames as possible so I could use them to kick start my next hive come spring, so basically what I want is lots of drawn frames, and ideally for the bees to survive the winter.

    I'm edging towards putting the deep on top..

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN
    Posts
    940

    Default

    Bob Harrison on Bee-L who is a commercial beek and gives lots of sage advice's philosphy is to over expand them in the spring and crowd them in the fall.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Fairfield, Connecticut
    Posts
    597

    Default

    "Third deep where should I put it?"
    In the garbage if you listen to most of the beeks on this site. They all use mediums. I use both deeps and mediums.
    I like the fact that the brood pattern is not broken Every 5 inches. and there are less gaps for the queen to cross in between brood boxes.
    If it isn't broken, don't try to fix it. If you build it, they will fill it.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord NH
    Posts
    2,665

    Default

    I personally would put it on top with a spacer that acts as an entrance as well as winter ventilation.

    That way they don't have to work too hard to move nectar into the top via the bottom entrance and you can easily close off most/all of the bottom come winter and still maintain good ventilation to prevent moisture buildup.

    I'm using screened polystyrene bases and plan to close off the bottom entrances except for about 3/8 of an inch and most of the scalloped sides of the bases which is allows airflow/access to the screened bottom. This way there is still some airflow combined with the top entrance to minimize moisture.

    I'll let you know how well it works come spring...we had a couple of ~-20F nights last winter....not particularly unusual for Central NH.

    Edit: Betterbee makes a shim with holes pre-drilled that is what I'm using...just added a patch of #8 screen to the backside to be used for ventilation....the holes come with predrilled and filled with removable plastic plugs

    http://www.betterbee.com/products.asp?dept=1562
    Milk Cows Not Taxpayers

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    VENTURA, California, USA
    Posts
    3,604

    Smile Third deep, where should I put it?

    You might consider top supering so that the bees can fully draw out the frames below.
    It's going to take a lot of nectar and or syrup to draw out the foundation.
    Each bee keeper has his own management thoughts about what the super or brood chamber depth should be.
    Checkerboarding is a management tool. Go to the search menue bar and type in your question and you will find a lot of prior postings.
    As far as the suggestion about the garbage just consider it as one persons opinion.
    You will notice that a lot of bee keepers use the full depth super for brood chambers and the mediums for honey.
    I would not place the super of foundation on the bottom board. it need to go where their is heat and the bees can cluster to make wax.
    Good Luck
    Ernie Lucas Apiaries
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Vienna,Maine,USA
    Posts
    50

    Default

    I put a third deep of foundation on top some very strong hives about a week ago.Half of them are 90% drawn as of yesterday.We have a very strong goldenrod flow this year.If you have a good flow in London your bees may draw it out for you.

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