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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Lancaster CA
    Posts
    410

    Default Water shortage for almonds

    California is facing a sever water shortage. The water allotment was cut to 40% of normal and then some areas were cut 45% of that original 40%. One grower was facing a million dollar loss had to build a 5000ft water main just to finish this years crop. The crop will be 20% lighter because of small kernels. Post harvest water is crucial to next years crop and no body knows where they will find water for the post harvest season. This is bad news but it gets worse. The water projection for next year, even if we get a wet winter is only 10% of nornal. Row crops are being allowed to die because of no water and some growers are trying to find enough water just to keep their orchards alive with anticipation of no crop next year. What will the demand be for pollination hives next year?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fresno California USA
    Posts
    2,479

    Default Dry years

    JJB

    Yes one more dry winter will put the hurt on. Right now demand will stay the same. The almonds are too profitable and too much investment p/a to develop. All else will be abandoned first. The peripheral canal project would provide relief too. Most vulnerable are the big westside plantings where they must receive a certain amount of surface water to prevent salt degradation. The well water is too deep and too salty to use alone. The big boys are really pushing for the new canal. The small nut size may also be due to consecutive years of heavy crops. Doesn't seem to me that demand for bees is set to diminish YET.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Davis,South Dakota,USA
    Posts
    401

    Default

    Yes but it doesnt take much to change that demand for nuts or bees,everything has its cycle.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fresno California USA
    Posts
    2,479

    Default Supply & demand

    Change happens doesn't it. On the supply side too when Mexico moves in demand may be the same but price of bees will be down. Fun!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Davis,South Dakota,USA
    Posts
    401

    Default

    it will change before that.Once acres start comin out,bess will be readily availiable,then sit back and whatch the price gouging.
    Last edited by high rate of speed; 08-30-2008 at 12:17 PM. Reason: spelling

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Tulare County, CA USA
    Posts
    1,380

    Default

    Those of us with a little common sense find it really easy to say that water is the lifeblood of agriculture and therefore more water needs to stay with the crops. Simple enough right?
    The sad, sad reality of it is that the majority of the people that make decisions around here think that agriculture is a thing of the past in the american economy and that we should import our food supply and spend our resources on building technology and more homes. Sooner or later they will probably get their way and we'll all be screwed. Not that I want this thread moved to tailgaiter, but look at the situation we are in with oil...Do we really want to do that to our food supply as well???

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fresno California USA
    Posts
    2,479

    Default Acres comin out

    Don't see too many right now. Some old orchards in No Cal, Perhaps some westside if 2009 is dry. Forecasts based on planted acreage show 40-50000 acres additional coming in annually for the next three years. They are a great export product with growing demand. BD and everyone else is selling the living daylights out of them. What they really need is a one year carryover. ( 1 billion lbs. ) to stabilize their supply and consequently price. They are far from this goal right now. I don't think anyone will pull almonds unless production or price is so low its unprofitable.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fresno California USA
    Posts
    2,479

    Default Almonds

    If you are growing almonds and have developed a good or better production record; if you are borrowing money based on future production, you probably have CROP INSURANCE. The greatest benefit occurs when a series of good years is followed by a particularly bad year, as is intended. .

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Chico,CA,USA
    Posts
    3

    Default The price is bad already.

    Current market price for california variety's is $1.30 if your lucky. With current input costs, you better be cranking some tonnage at that price.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fresno California USA
    Posts
    2,479

    Default Costs

    JHJR:

    Just curious; what are the approximate rough roundabout cultural costs, apart from capitalization? I know the growers are hanging on to their wallet as tight as they can. Can you share some realistic numbers on this?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Chico,CA,USA
    Posts
    3

    Default Costs

    Costs have quadrupled in the past three years. Every grower does it different. Just like beeks. Potash has gone from $275/ton to $1000/ton, (current price) Fert and bees will cost almost a cool grand an acre next year.(that is if you want high,quality tonnage). Cultural costs are well over $2000. If somebody says else, they aint breaking a ton/acre. Next year is looking tough.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fresno California USA
    Posts
    2,479

    Default Price

    JHJR

    Please correct me if I'm wrong: There is a price that is being paid but coops and big handlers I think set prices in pools through the year, in other words 4 quarters to the year, four pools each of which is paid out depending on the market during that marketing period. So right now a record crop is cruising down the pipeline no problem. Price is low. But if we have some early morning temps in the low 20s say Feb 15 the price will change dramatically. During a big harvest the price is generally at a low point.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fresno California USA
    Posts
    2,479

    Default Fertilizer

    Wow! $700 acre for fertilizer!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Snowmass, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    2,496

    Default Calif long-range weather forcasts

    Here is a pretty good site that claims to be 88% accurate in forecasting the weather. You can plug in any state and then it lets you break it down by county.

    http://www.dryday.com/state/California

    other states go here

    http://www.dryday.com/

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Lancaster CA
    Posts
    410

    Default Water at $900.00 per acre foot

    $900.00 per A/F is now being paid for farm water. I beleive almonds use 4 a/f a year. $3600.00 for water, $1000.00 for fertilizer and $2000.00 for bees and other. At what point will growers cut back to tree survival only. In San Diego county alcavado growers are cutting 60% of their trees off at the stump, hoping that there will be water in the future when the trees grow back. Previously water was $100.00 per a/f

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    central fla usa
    Posts
    63

    Default

    The costs for almond growers have gone up for sure, but the picture painted, try's to make it as if it's the high cost of bees that's making it hard for the high profits that they have enjoyed, to continue.
    Water, fuel and fertilizer are the big costs. I live in the heart of Phosphate mining production(i.e. fertilizer base) for Florida. The largest mining company,Mosaic, an off branch and former named Cargil mining,of the Cargil foods family, posted a record profit last quarter, I don't know many beekeepers posting those records.
    And I haven't heard or seen anyone from Exxon Mobil or Mosaic saying they may not sell as much fertilizer or sell as much fuel and we may have to take less money this year because the poor almond growers are not making as much profit.
    I've heard it from a half dozen guys ,whom had bees in Kali this year that prices for bees may not be good ,the almond growers are having a hard time, I hope a few guys will look outside the box when setting prices .
    Where there are fruits and nuts there are beekeepers!!!

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Davis,South Dakota,USA
    Posts
    401

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by florida pollinator View Post
    The costs for almond growers have gone up
    And I haven't heard or seen anyone from Exxon Mobil or Mosaic saying they may not sell as much fertilizer or sell as much fuel and we may have to take less money this year because the poor almond growers are not making as much profit.
    I've heard it from a half dozen guys ,whom had bees in Kali this year that prices for bees may not be good ,the almond growers are having a hard time, I hope a few guys will look outside the box when setting prices .
    With a weaker dollar prices will hold.But that is starting to change,I wish the almond growers were struggling as much as the commercial keeper.This chit chat isnt doing the market any good as well.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Lancaster CA
    Posts
    410

    Default

    The point I was trying to make with this thread was; With no water, some almonds will be pulled out of production and given only enough water to keep the trees alive. This would result in less acerage that needs pollination. Dept. of Water Resources will issue their allotment forcast for next year around Oct 15. Right now they are forcasting 10% of normal allocation will be available. This condition only affects acerage south of the Delta, Sacramento, but that is still 1/2 of the state.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jjgbee View Post
    This condition only affects acerage south of the Delta, Sacramento, but that is still 1/2 of the state.
    Only about 17% of the almonds are in the north state, above Sacramento.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,304

    Default

    From:

    http://www.bluediamond.com/news/2008JulyPresRpt.html


    With respect to water, the current drought, coupled with court decisions concerning endangered species has brought forth concerns for thousands of acres of farmland on the west side of both the Sacramento and San Joaquin Valleys.

    In the mix of land in jeopardy are over 250,000 acres of almonds: 50,000 acres in the north, and over 200,000 in the south. At this point, roughly 20% of these acres are being negatively affected by water shortage and stress. This percentage could have been much higher if large tracks of row crop ground had not been fallowed in order to transfer water to permanent crops such as almonds.
    The affected acres described above will yield lighter kernels for the 2008 crop and a much lighter bud set for 2009. If the drought and pumping constraints continue, we could see reduction in future almond production projections, leading to a much tighter supply picture. The result of this could be turbulent prices and lost consumption. We will do all we can to avoid such circumstances and to perform in the best interest of our growers and the industry.

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