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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    San Luis Obispo, California
    Posts
    12

    Question Strange activity after varroa treatment

    Hi,

    Two days ago I opened up a very healthy hive (two deep brood chambers and lots of bees) and inserted an Apiguard tray inbetween the chambers to treat for varroa mite. At the same time, I installed a varroa mite screen between my bottom board and the bottom hive. I have another hive across the yard (about 40 feet away) in which I also put an Apiguard tray, but was unable to install the varroa screen since the hive body was attached to the bottom board.

    The next day (and today too), the entire first hive I mentioned has been completely covered on all sides with bees, some of which are fighting with each other, as in honey-robbing. The hive wasn't open to the air that long, but the varroa screen insert did result in a somewhat larger hive opening. Also, yesterday and today were REALLY hot here in San Luis Obispo, so I know that usually results in a lot of outside bees, but not like this. The second hive, without the varroa screen, seems perfectly fine, although it was not so crowded as the first.

    Has anyone experienced such behavior after insertion of Apiguard and/or a varroa screen? I just want to make sure I didn't screw up a perfectly good hive by trying to do something helpful.

    Many thanks, Kathy O'Brien

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    owensboro,ky
    Posts
    2,243

    Default

    if this is a healthy hive take that poison out. thats what they are saying to you be leaving the hive. good luck,mike
    "Wine is a constant proof that God loves us and loves to see us happy" Ben Franklin

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    35

    Default

    I use Apiguard when mite counts are critical and indicate the colony will perish if not treated. Apiguard is made from oil of thyme, i.e., thymol. It sounds like you are not following the instructions, but I may have misinterpreted your email.

    According to the instructions you need to put the trays on the top of the frames of the topmost brood chamber. You also need to put an empty honey super to act as a spacer. Then you put on the outer cover. The fumes from the slow release gel are heavier than air so you must block the screened bottom board too. The only opening to the hive should be the entrance, which should be full open. Go back and read the instructions or go to this website: http://www.dadant.com/Apiguard-openingpg_000.htm, so you can see where you can make improvements to your method.

    I have also noticed the bees living outside the hive during the first week of the treatment. This seems especially true in hot weather. I suspect the hot temperatures makes the product outgas faster.

    As far as, "take the poison out of the hive," my opinion is that IF you have to choose between killing the mites or letting the mites kill your bees then thymol or some other soft treatment is warrented. This is a personal choice. I am not into letting my bees die from mites so I use Apiguard (thymol) or Check Mite (formic acid) depending on the daytime temperatures.

    Make sure you take the honey supers off the hive until the treatment is complete (two applications).

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Tulare County, CA USA
    Posts
    1,380

    Default

    Top end temperature for Apiguard is listed as 105degrees. I know I've been over that here in Tulare County for the last couple days. I've never used it at these temps but I can see how it might bother them a little.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    College Station, Texas
    Posts
    6,985

    Default

    you know everett I have never used either products, but aren't both temperature sensitive (ie some specification is made to air temperature highs and lows)?

    I also wondered??? if the behavior that o'bee was describing as robbing might be social grooming?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Red Bluff, Ca
    Posts
    299

    Default Apiguard up date for hight temp.

    The 2 x 50g treatment is good for a single brood or for a double brood. If you use more than two brood boxes then a further dose is often needed. The 25g treatment is useful for treating small colonies (nucs or small wintering colonies). At daytime temperatures, as you report of 103F I would try 2 x 25g or maybe 3 x 25g (See the attached list of FAQs and answers on Apiguard).

    No need to restrict the entrance but make sure the bees have enough space to actually get at the gel. Best way we have found is to put an empty super on top of the brood box(es).

    Let me know how you get on.

    All the best,


    Max



    Dr Max Watkins
    Director
    Vita (Europe) Limited
    21/23 Wote Street
    Basingstoke
    Hampshire RG21 7NE
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    APIGUARD FAQs - 2006 revision2 (2).doc
    Dan

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    35

    Default

    Hi Tecumseh,

    Yes, both have temperature ranges. I use Apiguard in the summer here in New England because it works well in the upper ranges. I use formic acid in the fall because it has an upper daytime limit of 79 degrees. The advantage of formic acid is that it is also effective on tracheal mites. For our climate zone, an effective program is thymol in July and formic acid in the middle of September, and perhaps in the spring say... mid April/beginning of May. Each application purchases a couple of months of time.

    I use an IPM approach with screened bottom boards, powdered sugar dusting, small cell and sometimes drone comb. I use the soft chemicals only if mite counts suggest that the colony is threatened with extinction. Normally, I only have to treat in the fall with the formic acid to clobber both the varroa and tracheal mites.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Auger Hole, MN
    Posts
    434

    Default Mike Haney

    Quote Originally Posted by mike haney View Post
    if this is a healthy hive take that poison out. thats what they are saying to you be leaving the hive. good luck,mike
    Can you provide a link or reference for your claim this materials is poison?

    Inaccurate claims like this are a disservice to other readers. Apiguard is considered a soft treatment, does not accumulate in the hive and is not dangerous to honeybees. If you need to treat for mite this a a very good choice of materials that WILL not harm your bees.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    owensboro,ky
    Posts
    2,243

    Default

    it may not be harmful to bees but its sure rough on mites. check webster for "poison" my experience has been that "very healthy hive"s will handle mites quite well and dont need treatment, and i was remiss in not making it crystal clear that this statement was in fact simply my opinion. while its nice to be mistaken for an expert, IN MY OPINION, your objections are overblown. good luck,mike
    "Wine is a constant proof that God loves us and loves to see us happy" Ben Franklin

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