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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Vista,California,USA
    Posts
    38

    Default Is it safe to cutout?

    I am wondering whether it was safe or not to cut out a feral hive that had recently been sprayed with bee/hornet killer. Apparently the guy that wants me to deal with it said that he tried to exterminate the hive but only could spray about 1/4 of it before getting stung and having to run. He said its a pretty big hive on that goes up into his attic. Is it worth keeping now or should i just kill it.
    Is it a goner if the broodnest got sprayed?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oxford, Kansas
    Posts
    1,988

    Default

    Is the hive worth contaminating your equipment. Once the hive has been sprayed it is contaminated for good. Most pesticides have a residual. IDDEE sums it up best. "they started the job now they can finish it". People who spray the hives a lot of times dont do it out of ignorance. They do it trying to save money. A can of raid is far cheaper than an exterminator or beekeeper doing the job right. Usually after they have sprayed the hive and gotten stung. They find out it didnt kill the hive as expected. They read the can and figure out it says wasp and hornet killer not bee killer. ( I have yet to see a can of pesticide that specifically lists itself has a bee killer). Then they call back wanting you to come out and fix the mess they created. I have done cutouts on sprayed hives but I charge double my normal fee. My normal fee is $100.00 hr 3 hr minimum for a hive that has not been sprayed. So a contaminated hive would be $600.00 just to get me to take the job. If they dont want to pay it I walk away. I have old equipment I use for contaminated hives. But remember you have to use caution when getting rid of the wax, Honey and storing equipment that is contaminated. If you dont it may end up in one of your hives or someone elses. As far as trying to save it. It is late enough in the year it would be hard to save a good strong cutout hive. Let alone one that has been set back by an idiot. Unless you are going to be compensated well I would walk. No run the other direction
    Last edited by riverrat; 08-26-2008 at 02:53 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C.
    Posts
    5,080

    Default

    Take the engine in your car apart, then find a mechanic that will put it back together. NOT!!!

    As RR said, my motto is, if they started it, let them finish it.

    Contamination, weak bees, and the idea that they can try again with the next colony and you will save their butt if they fail. Too much for me to contend with.

    If you plan to do it anyway, reread RR's pay plan. 600 minimum.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Kirkland, WA, USA
    Posts
    1,020

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iddee View Post
    Take the engine in your car apart, then find a mechanic that will put it back together. NOT!!!
    The mechanic I work with will actually quite happily do this. The way he put it was "You mess something up or lose something, it's you paying me to replace or repair it." Thus far I haven't taken him up on it.
    http://www.voiceofthehive.com - Tales of Beekeeping and Honeybees

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Azle Texas USA
    Posts
    369

    Default

    It's all about the $$. You guys make me sick. Here I am a 2nd year beek wanting to help the bees and you guys walk away. Call me I'll take them. I will make a box for them and try to make them into a producing hive. What is a producing hive? A hive that will reproduce and hopefully swarm. I'm not into it for the $$$. I'm into it for the bees. If you are into it for the $$$, let me be frank, "GET A JOB", that pay's you for your tallant. I have been with a father that had 75 hives and spent all week-end slinging, straining, bottling etc.. only to be dog dead tired Sunday night and stung so many times I can't count. There ain't no $$ in honey. Oh yea you can wholesale it , to be watered down and what ever else a honey bottler's do to it, what's the use? That ain't bee keeping...That's honey production. Get off your high horse and do something good for the bees. Other wise shut up. I don't want to hear your sob stories about contamanited stuff. "EATHER HELP THE BEES AND YOUR NEIGHBOR, charge if you want, OR KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT" .

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C.
    Posts
    5,080

    Default

    Sounds just like a first or second year beekeeper. Hang in there. I did for 20 plus years. Then one day you wake up and find that you have 600 dollars in each hive, plus time and woodware. That'll change your attitude real quick.

    I take out from 30 to 60 colonies a year, some free, some cheap, some I charge quite well. I have only been doing it for a little over 30 years, so I may not know what I'm doing yet, but I am still learning.It just depends on the situation. When someone sprays them, you are no longer trying to save the bees. It is too late for that. All you are trying to do then is get them out of the person's house. Anything else and you are only kidding yourself.

    AND.......I can still be friendly now and then.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oxford, Kansas
    Posts
    1,988

    spanked by the beav

    Golly GEE IDDEE looks like we have been spanked by the beav. I bet he and Wally do a lot of cutouts a week since he is doing it for the love of bees. Once they figure out Ward and June didnt tell them growing up that half the cutout hives dont make it especially the ones that have been sprayed. he will be the one whining about all the work and no bees to show for it. I could keep him busy with people that dont want to pay I turn down. I was wondering if the beav was into old mowers would he come by and mow my yard for free. Beav you are correct there is no money in honey especially if you are working for free.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    mt. airy, surry county, nc
    Posts
    217

    Default

    hey bever dam, try the decaff . chill out a little. bee keeping supposed to be relaxing . it's great to have a hobby
    "Any fool can learn, the trick is to understand - Einstein"

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Azle Texas USA
    Posts
    369

    Default

    Thank you for the responces. Just as I said, your in it for the $$$ and not the bees. I have a job, I manufacture custom ornamental iron in the DFW area. I play with the bees as a hobby. I want more bees. If I need to make a box for the bees, It's my time (hobby) and scrap lumber from any construction site, I don't mind giving my time (FREE) back to nature. I gave back to my country when I served in the milirtary ( and ask for nothing in return )[NO THANK FROM THE DEMOCRATS] and if I can save a hive of bees when they can sertaintly use my help, "I'M ALL IN" . You with me or agein me?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Azle Texas USA
    Posts
    369

    Default

    papa


    I am chilled. I don't understand how a beek on this forum and calls them selfs an expert, can say just because a homeowner sprayed a hive, will not help them with out. Double charging them. No wonder we are gitting a bad name. Once again, they don't care about the bees, their in it for the ripoff.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    mt. airy, surry county, nc
    Posts
    217

    Default

    bever dam it's great to do what you like. i did my first cut out and when the guy asked me what he owed me i told him i had too much fun to charge (stung multi dozens of time). but back to our story, if a farmer did not make $$ would he grow food for us all, if a buggy whip maker didn;t make money would he make whips. it's great when you do something noble, but even the knights had to eat


    hey join us in the chat room
    "Any fool can learn, the trick is to understand - Einstein"

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Oxford, Kansas
    Posts
    1,988

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaver Dam View Post
    papa


    I am chilled. I don't understand how a beek on this forum and calls them selfs an expert, can say just because a homeowner sprayed a hive, will not help them with out. Double charging them. No wonder we are gitting a bad name. Once again, they don't care about the bees, their in it for the ripoff.
    Keep Poking Beav. Lumpy once told you if you poke long enough you can find a fellows button. then Pow to the moon alice Oops differnet show. not much chance of saving sprayed hives anyone dumb enough to spray a hive gets what he deserves. Im not ripping him off after all the hive aint worth nothin so you just has well be compensated for your time.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C.
    Posts
    5,080

    Default

    Sorry, beav, but you aren't going to save a hive of sprayed bees in Aug. You're just dreaming.

    As for military. Viet Nam, 1966-67, first calvary.

    Bees are a hobby, but once retired, you count your pennies much closer.

    Treating them as if they had done nothing wrong, so they will spray again for the next swarm is helping the bees???? I don't think so.

    Doctoring a dead horse isn't going to help the horse, but may make you feel better.

    Hopefully, some ship welder will take up ornamental iron as a hobby and do it for free. Then maybe you can understand. Until then, think about the old saying.....

    It's better to stay quiet and be thought a fool, then speak up and prove it.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Default

    Dam, Beaver, think of what you stand to loose when you bring that contaminated hive to your yard. Straining or killing your hives is not worth a failing box of bugs. Experience is what you get when your plans don't work out.

    Hopefully you will learn this lesson; "There's no such thing as 'free' bees".
    Bullseye Bill in The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    www.myspace.com/dukewilliam

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,990

    Default

    [quote=Beaver Dam;Double charging them. No wonder we are gitting a bad name. Once again, they don't care about the bees, their in it for the ripoff.[/quote]

    The few cutouts that I have done have overall taken much longer than ten man hours. If I can't get $50+ an hour for my expertise, equipment and hard work, I stay home and take a nap. I would not call $600 to collect some toxic half dead bees a ripoff by any means.
    The best value for getting more bees that I have found, is buying a queen and dividing a hive, better yet put your time into raising your own queens and dividing your clean hives.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Grays Harbor, WA, USA
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Whether you are in it for profit or not, removing bees costs money. You have transportation, tools, hive supplies, advertising, etc. You may also have licensing and insurance. My expenses on the average cut-out this year came close to $100. I would be a sucker if I didn't at least pass that on to the customer - I would be paying to remove their bee problem.

    Even when they pay my expenses, I am still practically flipping a coin when it comes to payoff. 40% of the hives I removed this year didn't make it. Of the 60% that did, I got almost no honey this year. Assuming they survive the Winter (which is always a big assumption) I will be ahead next year. That is a lot of investment of time and effort for an uncertain reward.

    Do you give away your custom ornamental iron for the joy of it? If not, is it because you are only in the business for the money? Why would anyone not wish to make money using the skill they love and and have uncommon expertise in? Can you imagine someone putting in the hours and years of time to become a beekeeper because they were in it for the money?

    Of course, the picture looks very different when you are trying to grow - that is when it is easy to do jobs at your cost, since you just want boxes full of bees. Once all your equipment is full and your yard is full and the next call comes in, you now have to work. You have to make or buy gear. You have to find a place to put all those bees. If they have been sprayed, then it is more work. You have to segregate your equipment. You may have to find a place to quarantine the bees. You may have to spend more time and effort (and transportation) to go to your quarantine to take care of sick bees that very likely won't make it.

    A profit would be very nice to show for my efforts, but I'll settle for not taking a loss.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,704

    Default

    ...so, when you get these bees home that have been sprayed, will you feed the honey to your children? to your friends? will you sell some of it?

    do you know what it was sprayed with? do you know the half life for that product? are you going to foot the bill to have the honey tested? what do you think is the allowable ppb of whatever was sprayed in the honey?

    what if this hive is weak, and your other hives rob it out? (see all of the above now, and apply it to your other hives, or hives owned by your neighbor).

    deknow
    Last edited by deknow; 08-27-2008 at 12:36 PM. Reason: typo

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Whidbey Island, WA, USA
    Posts
    182

    Default Hey riverrat

    What if the spraying was a few years ago? I can understand contamination from a recent spraying but does anyone know the impact if the spraying was, say, two or three years ago?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,704

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OldScout View Post
    What if the spraying was a few years ago? I can understand contamination from a recent spraying but does anyone know the impact if the spraying was, say, two or three years ago?
    ...depends what it was sprayed with. if it was 2-3 years ago, would you trust what you are told in this regard? and in the end, would you feed the honey to your kids?

    deknow

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Jenison, MI
    Posts
    1,514

    Smile

    Ok, so I'll try anything once. I did a cutout for free once. After 4 hours of hot sweaty sticky work for a weak hive. Sure the bees are free, but I get paid for my time. Most people would rather spray the hive than pay me for my time.

    Unless I'm desperate for bees, hopefully I can avoid that situation in the future.

    Sprayed bees = weak hive. You want to go for it, go for it. I'm not.

    Man, it is just sooo easy to drop 2 or 3 frames of bees & brood into an empty box, slap a queen in there and Presto! I have a new hive. And I didn't have to have the agony of a 5 hour cutout! Shazzam!

    I'm in it for the bees, its a hobby. I'm not in it for the agony.

    Why is it that I should want to drive for ?? miles and do a free cutout again?

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