how to start small cell

[paulnewbee1]

I thinking about doing a hive in small cell next spring which are the best to buy and when do I put the small cell in if I buy a pack of bees, Some say it hard to do and you should know what you are doing
any help would be nice I have read a few threads on this site but hard to tell what you all are talking about at times My 2nd year
Thanks

[Eyeshooter]

I started beekeeping in May with 2 hives, 1 using Mann Lake PF-100s. I "painted" the frames with wax, sprayed them with HBH and installed the package. I did not do any regression, just put them in. The hive has been behind for a good part of the summer , tho' seems to have caught up to my other standard hive, and I believe just superceded its queen. I'll know tomorrow.

I'm sure there are better ways to try this. One thing I would do differently is I'd buy the PF-105s. They are black and much easier to see eggs and larvae compared to the white PF-100s.

Michael Bush has an excellent discussion of how he does it at http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm

Good luck!

John

[wayacoyote]

Paul,
Ideally, I'll recommend bying Small Cell (SC) bees from the start. I think people are afraid you'll buy their product (SC foundation) and things not go the way you're thinking, and then you'll blame them. For example, IF SC helps to control varroa, you should also be experienced enough to know if it doesn't work so you can save the bees. Also, not everyone is familiar with the term "abscombing" which is something that SC beekeepers work to avoid when "Regressing" (that is, to transition LC bees to become SC bees).

If you have the time and resources to spare/ chance, I'd do it. Already you're an experienced beekeeper! Don't fear the failure.

As for how to Regress existing hives, there are a number of methods. Here’s what I have done many times. I only do it to one hive to begin with, calling that hive my “focus hive”. Once it is regressed, I then use it to start on a couple of others, pyramid-fashion. Just remember that Large-cell bees won’t draw small-cell foundation right off the bat. They’ll need an intermediate step of “regressing”.

1) Mark some frames so you’ll know that they are for “regressing” a hive and insert Small-cell (4.9mm) or 5.1mm foundation into them.

2) “Work in” these frames into the broodnest area as they start drawing them out.
3) Force the queen to lay in them while preventing abscombing at the same time by putting an queen excluder (queen Includer) above the bottom board and either taking away all other frames or putting an excluder above her.
4) It will take about a month or so before the bees that have emerged from the regressing frames are ready to draw foundation. After that, add more Small-cell foundation and let them get going.
5) As a hive succeeds in becoming regressed, I pull the regressing frames and any other that I can spare to start another hive going. You could do them all at once, but that puts them all under stress at the same time. Focusing on 1, then 2, then 4 hives leaves the other hives right on producing. Using a freshly caught swarm or shaking a hive down completely and feeding it heavily might speed things along.

6) One thing I am very conscious to avoid is mixing in some LC comb back into a hive that was already regressed .

[darwish]

I started four packages on PF-120 frames this last spring and they drew them all out perfectly. It's not a silver bullet, but it sure seems to help.

[J-Bees]

what kind do they make if they have never had any kind, but what the good lord gave them the sence to make?? I worked this year to do away with any kind of store bought foundation. everyother frame is how I started and so far it is working.

[NasalSponge]

what kind do they make if they have never had any kind, but what the good lord gave them the sence to make?? I worked this year to do away with any kind of store bought foundation. everyother frame is how I started and so far it is working.

4.7mm

[Dundrave]

Interesting.

I shook a package onto 4.9 this year and they absconded.

Depressing.

I have since, gotten two hives to draw 5.1 nicely and some 4.9. Hopefully next year, I will cycle out my 5.4 and replace with 4.9. I intentionally made my over-wintering nucs out of the drawn 4.9 frames.



I visited Denny White's apiaries, he uses the Mann Lake plastic with great success.

[Ardilla]

There are a few people such as Don "Fatbeeman" that sell small cell nucs. No regressing needed. If you are going to buy bees anyway, that is one way to do it.