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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    Kingsland Georgia
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    314

    Default SHB over run HELP

    I lost a few hives to SHB, treated the ground in another area, put on western SHB traps, Put a FRAME SHB trap in the hive, Placed MITE II strips in hive. Guess what ? I installed two new packages 4 days ago, went to check on the queens to make sure they where released and found hundreds of SHB under the hive in the feeders, on the frames !!!!!!

    I have no idea what I can possible do now. I was given an idea from another bee keeper using a " non- approved" chemical thats working for him.
    I have lost alot of $$ this year to the SHB. I live in the hot humid southeast Ga area. ANY IDEAS ??? PLEASE LET ME KNOW. The hives are in 8-9 hours of direct sun light daily as well.. Also noted SHB eating with bees in front hive feeder?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Snowmass, Colorado, USA
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    2,497

    Default

    If you don't want to lose all your bees again I would use what the other beek is using that is effective.

    If you don't kill them completely from your equipment then they will just keep coming back. Sounds like what happened when you added the new packages, the hives were already infected.

    Good luck getting rid of them...I personally wouldn't waste anymore time and get them treated ASAP.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    Default

    You may just be in an area that allows the SHB to naturally populate the area due to your climate, fruit available (They can live on fallen fruit indefinitely), and other factors such as other beekeepers in the area.

    As for the illegal chemicals....I've heard that before with the "commercial guys can not afford to lose hives, and its not really their fualt they have to use illegals" in their fight with v-mites. We now know that years of this use is coming back to bite some on the butt. We also know that queen breeders in the south that thought that they could "kill two birds with one stone" and used checkmite by directly placing the strips in the hives to kill both v-mites and shb, now have problems with queen longevity, viability, and other issues.

    *Checkmite has been effective in killing shb, and I suggest only using it by the cardboard method, which keeps it out of direct contact with bees and comb.

    You may be seeing a constant re-infestation from other beekeepers and natural perpetuation of the shb in your area. The shb can fly a couple miles per day in their search for hives, and can constantly infest hives.

    You can keep all stored equipment clear of shb. You can talk to other beekeepers in your area, and ask questions. This may at least let you know if your beating your head against the wall since it may not be your fualt that they keep coming back in the numbers they do.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, N.C.
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    5,080

    Default

    My guess is they are receiving 6 hours too much shade daily.
    I had one hive last year with less than all day sun. It was the only one with more than 3 or 4 shb. It had hundreds. After moving it to the sun, the shb disappeared within a week. No treatment of any kind, other than moving about 125 feet.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    greer south carolina USA
    Posts
    86

    Default small hive beetles

    I hd problems with shb this spring, I cleared up the problem with sheets of metal under the hives. the shb cant complete their cycle right under the hive!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kingsland Georgia
    Posts
    314

    Default Sun Light

    Actually my estimate on sun light was a little off. They are getting sun on the south, west and east of the hive from sun up to sun down. I'm kinda leaning on the area Im in. My other hives are in a yard 20 miles north of me and I have not seen any shb. These hives are located in my yard behind my honey house. All stored supers are in a very tight sealed room, no junk equiment laying around. I froze these hives after they became infected for 30 days in a deep freezer.
    Now one thought to possible consider. I purchased the packages that I lost from the same company as these. I did notice today a few dead shb in there transport cage. Could this be a possibility? I maintain around 50 hives give or take a few due to swarms and other losses and never had a big problem with shb. Guess thats all part of it.

  7. #7
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    Feb 2003
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    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    Default

    I'm not going to question your expertise....but how can you dump a package with (maybe/perhaps/supposedly) literally hundreds of shb and you didn't see any?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kingsland Georgia
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    Default reply

    As noted, I said I seen a few dead ones in the transport cage after I placed it in the honey house for return. Never said I thought I dumped the SHB by the hundreds into the hives. But after reading another beekeepers Question on here I think I figured out some if not a major factor that possible increased the SHB in and around these hives.
    As far as an expert, that I'm not. I have only been keeping bees for 22 years. I have not had the amount I have now until 2 years ago. I still consider myself a hobbiest bee keeper. I have also worked ( volunteered) with the company I purchase my bees from in the spring to increase my knowledge on ever changing bee pest and problems. Even though package producing bee farms are diffrent the honey production the knowlege gained has been great. Most of these guy use many chemicals not approved for bees. But, when your family depends on it for survival you got to do what you got to do. I do know its a very common practice to use zipercide under a piece of roofing felt on the bottom board to kill SHB. I have not chosen this method due to the fact the bees from time to time will fan the powders and kill the hive. But for a package bee keepers lossing 1 out of 200 hives its not a problem.

  9. #9
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    Feb 2003
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    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jesuslives31548 View Post
    the fact the bees from time to time will fan the powders and kill the hive. But for a package bee keepers lossing 1 out of 200 hives its not a problem.
    It is if they are still sending out packages with shb and queens being of poor quality due to viability, longevity, and production being effected.

    Hey...I'm just glad someone else acknowledges this stuff goes on. Normally I'm shouted down or somehow told I only mention such "secrets" within the industry due to my insatiable appetite for taking over the market. Which of course makes me laugh.

    Marianne Frazier has commented and demonstrated, about finding that chemicals are passed thorough internal buildup within the bees themselves. It would never come to this, but could you imagine someone blaming chemical tainted bees being passed onto consumers (beekeepers) who then sued over not being fully aware of such chemical tainting from producers who hide in the corners of secrecy and scurry away from such details.

    I still do not understand the acceptance of ANY producer who uses illegal chemicals, and then passes off their products (bees or anything else) to unknowing consumers. I don't care what the excuse, the reasoning, or rationalization. I further question why so many protect, come to the defense, and deny, deny, and deny, that this stuff is happening.

  10. #10
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    Feb 2003
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    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jesuslives31548 View Post
    As noted, I said I seen a few dead ones in the transport cage after I placed it in the honey house for return. Never said I thought I dumped the SHB by the hundreds into the hives. But after reading another beekeepers Question on here I think I figured out some if not a major factor that possible increased the SHB in and around these hives.
    As far as an expert, that I'm not. I have only been keeping bees for 22 years. I have not had the amount I have now until 2 years ago. I still consider myself a hobbiest bee keeper. I have also worked ( volunteered) with the company I purchase my bees from in the spring to increase my knowledge on ever changing bee pest and problems. Even though package producing bee farms are diffrent the honey production the knowlege gained has been great. Most of these guy use many chemicals not approved for bees. But, when your family depends on it for survival you got to do what you got to do. I do know its a very common practice to use zipercide under a piece of roofing felt on the bottom board to kill SHB. I have not chosen this method due to the fact the bees from time to time will fan the powders and kill the hive. But for a package bee keepers lossing 1 out of 200 hives its not a problem.
    I'll take this post to another thread so as not to get to far off track.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kingsland Georgia
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    314

    Default reply

    I do agree, as mentioned before I have not deployed this type of action on my hives. I read the back of the Chemical I mentioned and it stated harmful to HONEY BEES. It is designed for killing flies in cow lots. I wonder often in the package bee bussiness if the local inspectors are trained to look for these types of things. As metioned I have worked with these guys before and seen many tactics that would often raise concern. This is no means a sell out to them but just a hobbie bee keeper learning the reality of the package business. Not to say all package bee producers use such tactics as using non-aproved chemicals in there hives.

    Now that Im way off topic I will stop... LONG LIVE THE SHB !!!!!!

  12. #12
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    Feb 2003
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    lewisberry, Pa, usa
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    Default

    31548,
    And please do not take my comments here, or on the other thread started about this issue, as any directed to you. I think its great to hear of such things, as bad as they are, due to these actions being covered up for far too long. Whether you (anyone) agrees, disagree or doesn't care, everyone should at least be given the information based on reality and truth, and allowed to go forward based on their own actions. Only when consumers are no longer being duped, can market forces perhaps trigger a change, based on consumers demanding such things no longer be allowed.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Clear Lake, WI / Sebring, FL
    Posts
    618

    Default

    The SHB are most likely attracted to the honey house, and your bees are in the area. As for the mystery chemical it sounds like Coral dust. You dont want to use it ,its very hard on the queens . There is a company called Bee-excellent in the ABJ wich sells a beatle trap wich is very effective. Keep your hives in the sun and keep them small. The Checkmite trap does work very well on a solid bottom board ,not so good on screen .

    The summer is the worst time of year for them especially down south. They should start to back off when it starts cooling down.

  14. #14

    Default

    Starting new colonies from packages this late in the season, this far south is a recipe for shb disaster. shb are at their peak populations about now and are drawn to the weakest hives. A new package is about as weak a colony of bees as one can find. I have experienced this as recently as last year. I knew going in that starting colonies in late summer from packages was going to be a problem but had committments that required the attempt. Of the 40 hives started in Perry, Ga on cotton flow only about half survived. And those only made it because we pulled them out after about a month. The main culprit? SHB.

    Start them again in early spring. By this late in the season they'll be better able to fend off the shb onslaught.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
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    2,470

    Default

    I think beemandan nailed it here. Starting packages in the south at this time of year is very tricky. Also, your description of the amount of sunlight left me wondering whether it is really enough. You need FULL sun - not indirect sun. If you don't have full sun, move them to a location that they get it. It is amazing what a difference it can make. I have three hives at a yard where they get sun all day, but its not good strong direct sun, and they always have WAY more SHB than any other hives that are in strong direct sun light.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kingsland Georgia
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    314

    Default thanks

    Thanks for all the advice. Do you think maybe I should find the queen in one of the boxes, destroy her and combine these two into one hive possible by using the news paper method ?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Damascus, Maryland
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    376

    Default

    The summer is the worst time of year for them especially down south. They should start to back off when it starts cooling down.

    wonder if you put some ice on the hive would it kill the SHB?? Heck I don't even know what SHB is:

    not to good with words let alone just letters that make words:}:}
    "Life without God is like an unsharpened pencil - it has no point."

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    1,313

    Default

    jesuslives,

    I am in Orlando, and I have major problems with the SHB too.

    Some of the tricks I have learned.

    NO pollen should be in the new splits despite the bees need for it. For the most part the brood combs need to be new foundation or maybe in a 3 or 4 frame split, only one is a brood comb (almost no pollen). Others can be drawn in honey supers and contain some honey, but have never been darkened by brood and contain no pollen. Brood combs and the pollen in them are what draw the SHB. In the summer sometimes there is a dearth of nectar, but there is almost always some pollen for them to gather. They have to gather no more than they can use and defend.

    Secondly the west trap works, but only if filled with oil. I have read about some that are filling it with DE powder. This just clumps up in our Southeastern humid environment, and then does not work.

    Gardstar on the ground is a waste of money and I am personally uncomfortable with something that smells that bad being that close to my hives. I have used it in the past, but no more.

    Full sun is vital. Particularly in the late afternoon. I know the common wisdom is to have hives with morning sun so they get started earlier, but in SHB territory, it is even more important that the hive be too hot on the outside for the SHB to even land on it in the late afternoon as that is when they seem to be most on the prowl. If you can't get full sun all day, then place them in the yard so the get the evening sun and less of the morning sun.

    I bought some of the AJ's beetle eater traps, but have not yet installed them. These look promising as they do the same thing the West trap does, but not so much oil required. Once you spill that nasty SHB stained oil down the leg of your nice white bee suit you'll swear them off for life. (You'll probably swear for better part of an hour as well - man I was mad)

    One last thing, if you are feeding the new splits, then use some Honey B Healthy or a homemade version of it. The strong minty smell seems to make the sugar water unpalatable to the SHB - but the bees take it up just fine.

    Good luck in your war with the SHB. It is a war of attrition and the bug has nothing but numbers to keep working on you. You have the brains and determination to keep on top of them.

    And on the bright side - we are almost through the worst part. As soon as we get some cool nights in another month or so, they quit laying so many eggs. You'll still see the SHB in the hive, but the adults are not the problem as long as they are not laying a thousand eggs a day.
    Troy

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