Fumagilin-B

[high rate of speed]

What isnt highway robbery when it comes to bees.like you said a gallons worth here and there,adds up way to fast.
Yes sheri customers are making grease patties from H-B-H,still up in the air,i personally think it might break down to fast.

[Keith Jarrett]

What isnt highway robbery when it comes to bees..

Summer pollination.

[high rate of speed]

Ya ok.

[John Lockhart]

As far as HBH for nosema control, I was at the summer meeting of the Colorado beeks and the guest speaker was Dr. Frank Eischen from the Weslaco bee lab. They just finished a nosema study they are getting ready to publish. They fed bees with fumidel and HBH and found that the HBH was just as good at controling nosema as the fumidel. He said they were in shock! He said he was sure it would not work when the study started, and now is convinced it is a good alternitive to fumidel. They did not try it in a mega-dose like some guys are doing, buy just fed it in syrup. I am putting a bunch of it in my patties, and the bees just love it.

[alpha6]

John is right. The studies actually showed that hives feed 1 to 1 and HBH were slightly stronger then those fed 1 to 1 with F-B. The study was pretty extensive and though he wouldn't come out and say that F-B didn't give any better results (because they funded part of the study) the data tables were on the screen and they were pretty definitive.

[JohnK and Sheri]

HMMM, interesting about that HBH study. Any idea when and where it will be published? How long was the study? Didn't someone (Randy O maybe?) have a study showing no short term benefit? That Fumigilin is pretty pricey stuff, a cheap alternative would sure be nice.
Sheri

[pahvantpiper]

"HRS, that should help you, with your queen loss, but really, selling that stuff for $500 when you can make it for $20, how does Lonnie say it" thats highway robbery". LOL yes it is."

Keith,
Are you saying you can make it for $20 as opposed to $500? Seems like when I priced the essential oils used in making HBH they were extremely expensive in and of themselves.

BTW, I fed quite a bit of HBH this spring and my bees look better than they ever have. Can't know for sure if it's all the HBH but, my gut tells me it helped.

[alpha6]

Sheri,

If you want to save even more money then you can make your own HBH, its pretty simple and if you are running commercial hives and use alot it will save you mucho dinero.


I will try and find the study and post a link to it. It should be out there....it was a nice powerpoint and clearly showed that the colonies using HBH and 1 to 1 did slightly better then with F-B. I wish I had more specifics...I will find them.

[JohnK and Sheri]

Sheri,If you want to save even more money then you can make your own HBH,

Yes, we make our own. Can't afford all those store bought concoctions.

I will try and find the study and post a link to it.

I would appreciate the link, thanks.
Sheri

[Jim Fischer]

Did Frank's presentation clearly explain if the controls were fed
at all?

Feeding either HBH or fumagillin requires one to feed, and in
many cases, mild Nosema problems certain can be cured'
with simple feeding of nothing more than 1:1 sugar syrup.

So, if controls were "fed", and test subjects were fed
one thing or the other or both, then I'll buy the results.

But if controls were NOT fed at all, then the secret
ingredient here might simply be the feeding itself.

[alpha6]

Jim,

You are right about just feeding 1 to 1 to cure Nosema. I have done it and know it can work. I can't remember if the controls were fed just 1 to 1 or nothing. I am working on finding the study, but won't have time to really search till this weekend.

[sqkcrk]

Nic Calderone "reported" at last weeks ESHPA summer picnic that in Spain folks are finding good results treating Nosema Cerana w/ twice the dosage of Fumadil. I think that that's twice the concentration, but I'm not sure.

Let's say you have a high nosema spore count, say in June. How long before the colony dies? Or will it just be a contributing factor to winterloss due to stress? Is the expense of time and material worth the treatment?

[Keith Jarrett]

[QUOTE=pahvantpiper;337706
Keith,
Are you saying you can make it for $20 as opposed to $500? Seems like when I priced the essential oils used in making HBH they were extremely expensive in and of themselves. .[/QUOTE]


Well Rob, You should be able to buy essentials oils for around $1.00-1.20/oz. Lemon,spearmint oils ect... goes a long ways.

[alpha6]

I am saying I can make it a lot cheaper. You don't need much, I know what the concentration is (can't say that about HBH) and I know the purity.

Here is a link that has been pretty good for me getting quality stuff.

http://www.worldclassnutrition.com/lemongrass.html

[Ian]

>>I will try and find the study and post a link to it. It should be out there

A beekeepers test trial here, and another test trial there doesnt cut it for providing the information needed to prove the products claims.
there is alot of snake oil out there, we have to make sure that the products that are being sold actually hold up to the claims being made.
This fellow presented himself very professionally, and to give him credit, didnt beat around the bush about selling an unproven product. He was also making claims of not only eliminating Nosema, both types, but also reducing v and t mite infestation. He provided reasons how it worked, but again, nothing to prove it!
Now I can buy this stuff, or even make my own, but frankly I dont have the time or money to be investing into a product that might or might not work. There is channels where these kind of products get tested. Why dont they just spend the money, get it tested, back thier claims and get on with thier business.
I mean the potential of pay back on this product IS there, especially if it cures all it is claimed to.

[high rate of speed]

We will never have a positive answer on anything.Trials and tribulation,the life of a beekeeper isnt it great.

[Ian]

>>We will never have a positive answer on anything

A business always has to run its affairs in a critical manner, our bottom line determines wheather or not we stay in business or not,

There might be something behind HBH, probably works as its claimed. But right now it falls into the same catigory as all those other treatments, alternative and "natural" type.

You know that cyclone that is advertised in the ABJ? Big page ad, a whole load of claims made. Pretty much cleans up everything in our hives.
Our guys here tested that product, and it showed no results, period.
I am thinking a whole lot of advertising is making thier sales, no studdy, no science. Just a whole lot of hype.

Can you afford to get caught up in it all?

[Matt Beekman]

Previouse post make a good point about how the producer should step up and back up claims with hard facts and cite specific studies. I may be wrong, but my understanding is that for HBH to market the product as a treatment there will be a whole different set of bureaucratic procedures to get approved before it can get it to market. Legally, it is marketed as an attractant which is a lot easier to comply with the regs. Is it better to have it now; or wait until they get approval? I don't know until I can read Frank's study. But is it snake oil? Probably not. Will it solve all of our problems? Probably not. Is it another tool to maintain healthy bees? Quite possibly.

[Keith Jarrett]

HBH has many advantages,

I do, put it in formic acid which lower's queen loss, as a uptake for syrup, and one of the first that I know of to commercialy use it in pollen sub.

Also, Frank is not the only one testing at this time.

[Nick Noyes]

We fed HBH this spring and were happy with the results. We are going to feed it this fall on a large scale. We can't afford to wait for science.
However I do appreciate the work all the people in the research field are putting towards our problems.
I would be interested in a recipe on a home concoction. What does one use for an emulsifier?