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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Paw Paw, IL
    Posts
    75

    Default wood gluing frames only

    Last year, I made some experimental frames with tile perfect wood glue for laminate floors that I had left over from doing a floor. It was streight up glue put on thick enough to leave a bead at each end of the frames, no nails. I even left some frames out in the weather all summer and all winter. They're still good and strong at the joints, the wood is actually getting kind of grey and weak.

    This year, I decided to just use wood glue on all frames. I tried elmers exterior/interior and some other wood glues on about 10 frames each and let them dry. Not nearly as good on any of them. Gaps in the glue after it dried and they also cracked under the pressure. Back to tile perfect and there was a clear resonous bond and I'd sooner have to break the frame than break the bond.

    Conclusion. It's only my second year beekeeping so take this advice as you will. Tile perfect laminate and wood flooring glue is sweet!! Heck with nailing and stapling frames! I must also conclude that I hope this doesn't bite me in the butt because I'm doing this to 500 frames. Experimentally the first trials are successful though.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Greenville, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,322

    Default

    How long to dry? Most of us nail only to keep the frame together while the glue dries. I dump and refill my frame jig about every 3-5 minutes when I'm really going on frames. Nailing let's me do that.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Paw Paw, IL
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Here's how I usually do it. I put down some newspapers, get 10 or so of the Y shaped ends and use my finger to smear a generous helping of glue on the tops and bottoms. I then put the top bar on and the bottom bar on, one at a time making sure to press so that they are all the way on with a slight bead showing at the edges. I then stack the frames in a pile alternating the direction they face. The papers catch any drips. The frames don't move much after I glue them, brushy mountain made them pretty tight fitting. I let that sit overnight and try to get the frames into the shed before the wife gets angry. I'm not sure how long it takes but seems to go pretty quickly.
    Last edited by danameric; 05-23-2008 at 11:00 AM. Reason: added to it

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Greenville, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,322

    Default

    When you have 100+ to build that goes way too slow for me. I can do 10 in the jig in the time you do one by hand like that.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cleveland, Texas
    Posts
    1,378

    Default

    Ross,

    I'll second that! When I assemble frames I am usually doing 200+, I use the jig, Titebond III and a 1/4" crown stapler. I really like the Titebond III, once it is cured, its waterproof and its more likely that you will break the frame before you break the joint.
    "The UNKNOWN, huh? That would be SNORBERT ZANGOX over in Waycross."

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Paw Paw, IL
    Posts
    75

    Default

    I'll have to try some!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Greenville, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,322

    Default

    Dan,,,
    http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/framejig/framejig.htm
    You can still use your new glue...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    White County, Arkansas
    Posts
    874

    Default

    I like that jig. Have to make one for myself. I just use Gorilla Glue and nails. The jig should really speed things up.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Paw Paw, IL
    Posts
    75

    Default

    For me, there's definitly no need to nail when doing it by hand. I must say that the jig looks kind of cool and pretty simple to build. I'll have to make one and try it out.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cleveland, Texas
    Posts
    1,378

    Default

    My 14 year old son complains that the jig is too slow since it only holds ten frames. He wants me to make a "super jig" that he can do 50 frames at once in. I don't think that would be too feasible but I may try to build one that will do 20 (basically two of the ten frame ones butted together into one).
    "The UNKNOWN, huh? That would be SNORBERT ZANGOX over in Waycross."

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Greenville, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,322

    Default

    The only limitation is the length of your arms and how much you can flip over. I guess you could mount it in a frame like a quilting frame with a swivel in the middle to flip it

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cleveland, Texas
    Posts
    1,378

    Default

    Yeah, I thought about something like that, but decided against it since his labor is so cheap! LOL
    "The UNKNOWN, huh? That would be SNORBERT ZANGOX over in Waycross."

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Greenville, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,322

    Default

    There you go....

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    1,313

    Default

    I make my frames the same as Gene and it goes pretty fast.

    The other thing I like about using the jig is that the frames are always perfectly square. I've done them by hand and had them come out as some odd shaped parallelograms.
    Troy

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    North Alabama, SW Kentucky
    Posts
    1,914

    Default

    The strength (and ultimate success) of the glue is tied directly to how it was clamped during "set-up". As Ross (I think) mentioned, the nails help to hold the wood while the glue sets. Papa has a book on woodworking in which it is given that the thinner the glue joint, the tighter the bond. I hadn't read it last year when I "glue only" some 100 frames. I've had one to already lose its top bar... I was using the same method as given in the original post above. I'll never do that again.

    Nails or clamps... something has to hold it for it to be sure to work. Pulling on the top bar and having it break free in your hands while the frame drops deeper into the hive just isn't the way to go.
    WayaCoyote

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cleveland, Texas
    Posts
    1,378

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wayacoyote View Post
    The strength (and ultimate success) of the glue is tied directly to how it was clamped during "set-up". As Ross (I think) mentioned, the nails help to hold the wood while the glue sets. Papa has a book on woodworking in which it is given that the thinner the glue joint, the tighter the bond. I hadn't read it last year when I "glue only" some 100 frames. I've had one to already lose its top bar... I was using the same method as given in the original post above. I'll never do that again.

    Nails or clamps... something has to hold it for it to be sure to work. Pulling on the top bar and having it break free in your hands while the frame drops deeper into the hive just isn't the way to go.
    When you nail or staple the top bar into the end bar from the top, you are nailing into the end grain of the end bar and fasteners don't have much gripping action in the end grain of the wood. This is why it is important to also put a nail or staple below the joint of the end bar with the top bar. Be sure it goes through the end bar and up into the top bar. This will lock the top bar into the end bar. I have never had one pull out if I do this.
    "The UNKNOWN, huh? That would be SNORBERT ZANGOX over in Waycross."

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