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Trap-Out method

25K views 74 replies 30 participants last post by  bobber128 
#1 · (Edited)
I am a newbie to beekeeping, have only been keeping hives again for a few years. I just began catching swarms with the hope of building up my small apiary. I've found there is a lot I don't know and a lot to learn.

The local agricultural center is, as well as pest control companies, giving out names of people on their lists who remove swarms. Like other beekeeps in the area, I'm getting calls about swarms moving into or becoming established in houses. I've never tried to remove a swarm from a house and I did not realize until talking with Iddee that there was another way (the trap-out method) of successfully removing bees from a home, other than getting a carpenter and actually going into the structure and removing them and the comb, which is costly to the homeowner and which I have no experience doing. Many people can't afford to do this.

The other alternatives seemed to be to either live with the honeybees, which most people, don't want to do, find a way to make them leave, or kill them. If they are killed or made to leave, the honey still remains in the walls and will cause a problem, draw more bees or other insects. So I was for awhile at a loss on what to advise people to do.

I read about putting steel wool in the entrance where they were coming and going from, advised folks that called as best I could when they indicated they could not afford to have construction done or when they chose to kill the bees instead of having them removed. This resulted, apparently, in a few colonies being killed. Though I was trying to help people who had these insects invade their homes, I wish I'd never advised them. If people choose to kill honeybees then that's their choice but it's not mine.

Other beekeepers in the area also are advising that they can't remove the bees from houses and for folks to call the exterminators. I got a call this afternoon from a woman who had bees going into her brick foundation and had gotten into the insulation and in the house. The ag center had given her several references for folks to call to remove them. It was later in the afternoon before I received her message and could explain to her about the trap-out method and that the bees could have been removed without being killed. She had contacted other beekeeps who told her nothing could be done and it was best to exterminate them. By the time I spoke with her she had called a pest control company and had them exterminated.

These beekeeps didn't know they could be removed with the trap-out method.
Few beekeps who remove bees seem to use this method, many like me did not know about it, even the bee person at the Forsyth Agricultural Center hadn't heard of it and had trouble understanding how it worked. I did too at first until I saw Iddee use it.

The Forsyth County Beekeepers Association has a website and a section on honeybee removal. They state that " Trapping is sometimes done, but it is rarely practical because it takes several weeks and doesn't remove 100% of the bees. If you do decide to exterminate them, any large quantities of honey left behind should be removed to avoid staining and destruction of inside walls or ceilings. The honey and nest debris may also attract other bees, insect pests and rodents."

Yet Iddee says the Trap Out method he uses works, and that the bees will go in and remove the honey. Wouldn't it be more practical and certainly beneficial to use this method? In it, apparently, the bees exit via a cone that they cannot enter back in through. The trap-out is left in place until the bees have left the house and made their home in a nearby hive that has brood comb in it. Once the colony is established the trap out (cone over the entrance) is taken down, the bees go in and remove the honey but return to the hive, their new home, rather than remain in the house. Then, the entrance to the house closed up so other bees can't get in. It’s not inexpensive, but certainly it is not as expensive as tearing into a home or office building, or paying someone to go in and take out the bees comb but leave the resulting repairs needed the burden of the homeowner. And as bees are needed it seems most prudent and practical.

And given that more bees are needed, and more beekeepers, couldn’t some sort of grant be developed to help homeowners with the costs of this kind of removal? Maybe beekeepers that do these removals could be paid through these funds, offsetting their expenses and the resulting expense to the homeowners, encouraging apiculture?
 
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#56 ·
Iddee - thanks for the tutoring!

thanks for getting back to me so quickly, I think I've got a good picture of how to do this now. Mike V suggested that with 2 clear and separate working exit areas, there may be two separate hives in here. it's possible there's one in the interrior wall and one in the exterior.

my thought is that I'll set up two traps - one on each major exit. if it's two hives, no problem. if it's one hive, I'll just be trapping into splits... does that sound right?

thanks again, you're an excellent tutor, I'm feeling well equiped to go try this.

best, megan
 
#57 ·
Careful with the compliments....I may get the big head. ;)

Since trap outs are mostly for getting worker bees and ridding the structure of bees, two traps will just speed up the process.

There may well be two colonies in the house. I have found as high as five colonies adjacent to one another in a house.
 
#58 ·
idde's comment about my being in a different climate than yours is correct. All items in beekeeping have to be adjusted for climate.

Here in FL, I have enormous trouble with SHB and so I can't really do trapouts in the hot summer months or the SHB kill it off before I can trap it out, and leave a huge mess.

About the trouble of placing the trap near the cone entrance I have another trick I have used with some success. I sealed up the hive and mounted some 3/4" PVC pipe to the wall so that the only way in and out was through my pipe. I sealed it all up and left the end of the pipe open for a few days so they get used to the new entrance, then placed the cone over the end of the pipe. This allowed me to move the entrance about 6 feet horizonatally and down about 3 feet to where the new hive body could be mounted more readily.

It worked fine. Once thing about the pipe though I would always pitch it down so any bees that die inside tend to roll out. Bees often try to carry out the dead and this allows gravity to help out.
 
#61 ·
yep, they're not quite as close together as they should be... the bees do seem to be making their way over though. I'm going by this morning to see if it looks like they're migrating like I hope. if not, I'll move things.

I'll tell ya, moving all that stuff around while up a ladder is not so easy! that stuff's heavy! Also learned how little leverage you have while trying to drive screws from the top of a ladder... little things you don't think about untill you do them...

thanks, megan
 
#62 ·
I think it will work fine, just a little slower than if it were touching. Just look closely for other entrances. That is the biggest obstacle for a trap out. Also check the cone exit often to be sure it doesn't get blocked with dead bees.

Keep us updated as you go along, and yes, you will find many reasons why it helps to be insane to do trap outs. That's why I enjoy them so much. I qualify so well. :rolleyes:
 
#64 ·
That's for sure! I ended up with two full deep boxes from the trap out that I was doing at my doctor's house. The first box was wall to wall bees, nectar, pollen and honey. It was really a lot of fun gettin it down the ladder.:D

Seven days after the bees had quit coming out of the cone I removed the cone and smeared some honey around the hole in the wall. The next two days presented a feeding frenzy as the second box of bees cleaned out the colony in the wall. Two days later I removed the new colony in it's box and the stand that they were setting on.

After six weeks the wall was empty of bees, I had two new colonies with newly hatched queens and the homeowner was very impressed with the project. He especially appreciated the fact that I explained to him everything that was going to happen before it did. My wallet will also appreciate the fact that it will be a bit fatter after I send him the invoice for the trap out.:cool:
 
#66 ·
Trap Outs - Any New Comments

I have read this thread and others on a different forum about Trap Outs. There certainly are different opinions and different results. I would be interested in reading any new experiences and opinions on the subject.

It seems to me (and my short-time experiences in beekeeping), that situations do occur where there is not a practical solution to removing bees other than a trap out. In these situations, it may not be practical to cut out the bees without unrepairable damage. The chances of getting the queen appear to be very low.

I received a call from a homeowner who does not want to kill the bees in one of their trees but does want them gone. I explained about the methods of removal and the residual they would leave if not done properly. I also explained about the great likelihood that others would take their place. They exterminated a colony in this same spot several years ago and a different colony moved in to take their place. The hive is in a large tree with the only entrance 8-10 feet above ground and less than baseball-sized opening. The tree is adjacent to their pool and they are concerned with bee stings.

Has anyone come up with an idea of how to get bees out of a tree without cutting the tree apart? I was lucky once with a lot of smoke and a garden hose. The queen came out and landed on the ground. This colony is still going strong in a hive box.

When the hive cannot be cut out and the homeowner definitely wants the bees gone, does the objective shift to collecting as many bees as possible who will hopefully raise their own queen?

The homeowner would like as many bees as possible to be removed by Easter (two weeks) and then something else can be done later. The tree has not budded/leafed out so we need to see whether the tree is still alive before a final decision can be made. If dead, we could do a cut out later this spring.

What is your opinion about a cone trap leading to a brood box with a frame of brood and watching it for the next two weeks? The brood box and the cone would be removed for Easter and the process could be started over if needed. I am only considering doing this because it is only a few miles away and may be a good experience.

Any alternative suggestions?
 
#67 ·
No mention of using fuming agents

Interesting that no one mentioned using a fume agent to accelerate the emptying of the cavity?

I am sure it is impractical in some situations (entrance a long way from hive) and the potential infiltration of the smell into the house. Maybe it is not allowed in the MSDS?

Comments?
 
#68 ·
Ok, just so I have this down right, all I need to do is make a cone (out of some screen) around 18" long that tapers down to 3/8" at the entrance/exit to the hive. Then set a box with some uncapped brood, a little honey, and some drawn comb at the end of the cone?

The bees won't go back through the cone?

I ask because the neighbors moved out and they have an old safe out in their back pasture that has bees in it. There is 1 entrance/exit (a shotgun slug hole). Thought I could just open it up, but its locked with no combination.
 
#69 ·
dindallas asked "Any alternative suggestions?" Here's one that you can improve on. Have done trap outs with success in the seventies, but developed what was a better method for my area (MA) at the time. There used to be on the market a product called a Shell No-Pest strip. It was a yellow piece of plastic impregnated with a substance that flying insects did not tolerate well. Its main use was for barns with livestock, the strips would be hung in cardboard foldouts from the beams and they would take care of any flying insect problem the livestock owner had. Although they were taken off the market:no:, I imagine that there must be something that has replaced them, only more environmently friendly. These Shell No Pest strips were cut into smaller long strips. The strips were inserted into the hive's entrance on the side of the house, as many as would fit in. An empty hive with drawn out frames was left nearby. Within a day or day and a half, the swarm and queen would be in the hive or on a branch nearby. It was easy for the homeowner to have the removal of wax and honey done during the winter once the bees were gone. NO ill effects to the bees, as they lived quite well in my hives. Just a thought in a very interesting thread.
 
#72 ·
A little off subject but we use to knock down wasp nest along the river (my brothers and i) to use the larva for channelcat fish bait. We put them ( the nest) in a paper sack,well when i reached in the sack to put some bait on my hook some of the baby wasp had hatched out, don't let anyone tell you baby wasp can't sting:doh: Jack
 
#73 ·
I'm trying a trap-out from a beautiful Catalpa tree that I'd rather not see torn down. As it is not flat, I was considering stapling a piece of screen across the opening, and having two of the little plastic escape cones for the bees to get out. I have empty boxes and available frames of brood. Does this sound like it will work? If so, I plan to set it up tomorrow. idee, would you mind a call from a new beek? my email address is dan.keeler@gmail.com. Thanks guys and gals.
 
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