Trap-Out method

[iddee]

If you check them every 2 or 3 days, so you can exchange them when full, you might get 5 or 6 nucs from one good colony. Everything works, just some things better for some results, other things for other results. It just depends on what outcome you want.

[mikevan]

Oh!!!!! Put a brood comb in each nuc and basically have several colonies for the price of one!!! I like that - I'm trying to rapidly increase my hive numbers so anything that helps will go a long way towards that end. Grow out the nucs a bit, let them each generate a queen, then transfer them to full sized hives and start over again with the emptied nuc... Of course, it'll be a little slow to start with since I don't have a lot of expendable brood-comb to spread around, but with more hives and more brood-combs, I expect that to increase significantly...

Thanks,
Mike

[Wheatfieldflowers]

Hi Iddee

I am soooooo interested in trying to trap out the bees in my wall. I do not want to kill them. I need them for my orchard and flowers. Please let me know how it is done.
It sounds like a funnel or something is put over the hole. My e-mail address is jbarjj@hotmail.com If you include your phone number I will phone you at your convience.
Thanks
Virginia

[iddee]

You have mail.

[carbide]

I started a trap out of a colony from the side of a brick house about 2-1/2 weeks ago. The entrance hole is alomst 8 feet above the ground and is where a fresh air duct is located for the homeowner's fireplace. Since the house is made of brick I didn't want to go into the wall after them even though the owner said that he would get it repaired at his expense. I built a stand out of 2x4s to get a platform at the proper height, positioned a ten frame deep hive body there with one frame of young brood and eggs and 9 frames of foundation.

Fortunately, my first attempt at positioning the screen cone worked well enough that none of the bees coming out of the cone managed to get back in. Over the next few days the homeowner (my doctor) kept me informed about what was happening with the trap out and all of the bees flying around in his back yard.

Unfortunately, I had to have a minor operation which prevented me from getting back to the trap out until after 2-1/2 weeks had expired. At that time I opened the hive body to discover wall to wall bees inside. All of the frames have been drawn out and there is nectar and honey in over half of them. The box now has a new queen who has just started laying in the original frame of drawn comb that I had placed in the box. I removed the box from the site and took it to my home apiary. I replaced it with a new box with a frame of young brood and eggs and I hope it too will fill with bees over the next couple of weeks.

Since this is my first trap out I'm surprised at how well it has gone so far, I just hope it continues to proceed with the same good results.


Iddee,

What type of caulking do you use to seal the back of your cone base board?

[iddee]

But, carbide, didn't you read the first few posts of this thread? Trap-outs don't work.

Congrats on a job well done.

I use silicone for holes and cracks less than 1/2 inch. I use great stuff for over 1/2 inch. If the great stuff is behind the cone backing, I have never had them chew it out.

[carbide]

But, carbide, didn't you read the first few posts of this thread? Trap-outs don't work.

Congrats on a job well done..

I've got a bit of a stuborn streak in me that insists that I try things that I maybe shouldn't.

I use silicone for holes and cracks less than 1/2 inch. I use great stuff for over 1/2 inch. If the great stuff is behind the cone backing, I have never had them chew it out.

I had thought about using closed cell sponge neoprene but I've seen them chew through it before. I had thought about using rtv silicone, but the wall is only two years old and I didn't want to leave the homeowner with too much of a mess to clean up. I ended up inserting 3/8x3/8 pieces of scrap wood into all the mortar joints as they went under the cone base board. Seems to be working OK so far.

[papa bear]

hey iddee, hope you not too sick of this subject. noted where you said (and good photos too) to put the trap hive close to the funnel. can it be further, the entrance in the block wall i am trying to get the bees out of is about 20' foot off the ground. i thought about hanging it from the roof, which is flat so maybe the hive can can be there (about 3' away). thanks for all the info you have provided . got any pics of how to make the cones?

[mikevan]

Get a couple of 2x4 20's and cut up some 2x4 8's and form a support for the hive so that the entrance of the trap-out hive to be very close to the entrance of the hive being removed.

Be well,
Mike

[iddee]

http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...nt=bees002.jpg

http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...nt=bees003.jpg

I've never tried it more than a foot. It worked then, but not as well.

I seen another beek's trap 8 feet high with the box on the ground. They had built four sections of comb on the cone and had it full of honey. No bees in the box.

[papa bear]

hey , i thought of using one of my ladders and a pair of ladder jacks platforms. this would probably be perfect. problem is i have no way to attach it to the wall and i think a structure that tall would be too unstable. thinking of making a platform with hooks and hanging it from the sill on the wall. this is a commercial style building. the main question is, is it necessary?

[beyondthesidewalks]

I've used trap outs to build up a weak hive or swarm that I wanted to make it through the winter. They're especially helpful if you get a late swarm which will almost never make it through winter. By using it as the bait hive on a trap out, you give the hive a workforce and plenty of honey.

The down sides of trap outs for me have been the little buggers are determined and sometimes find an alternative entrance. Invariably I end up driving to the location several times. I have never retrieved a queen from a trap out except for one that absconded while I was there watching. I caught the swarm and managed to hive it. They didn't survive. Trap outs have always been high effort with not so big a reward for me. With the high cost of gas I'm not sure many far away trap outs would be worth it.

Another downside is that the homeowner admits after several denials that they had sprayed the hive with some toxic chemical once the trap out is done. Sometimes it has even been after they called a professional exterminator and the the pro failed. The homeowner is frustrated and just wants the bees gone. They don't feel bad about tricking you into getting the poisoned bees.

I don't like to tear apart the building to get the bees. I don't want the exposure, hard work or liability. The homeowner never seems to follow my advice and get rid of the honeycomb after the trap out is done. My experience has been that another swarm will be attracted by the comb and make the trapped out cavity their home next year. I've performed trap outs at the same location before.

Another reason that I ask them to get rid of the comb is that wax is a huge fire hazard. If it ever catches fire, it's going to burn hot for a long time. I worry that the homeowner will try to make me liable for not removing the wax if their house burns down. I wonder if I should have some sort of letter of indemnity that I have them sign before I start. I know they can sue anyway but that would go a long way towards proving they knew risks and responsibilities.

Given CCD and all of the other scourges that are killing the bees, I'd like to get the queen from a surviving feral hive and the trap out doesn't do that. A cut out is a one visit situation that is normally more work and I have a good chance of getting the queen. Unfortunately, my cut outs don't have the greatest survival rate either. I seem to have much better success with swarms.

[mikevan]

hey , i thought of using one of my ladders and a pair of ladder jacks platforms. this would probably be perfect. problem is i have no way to attach it to the wall and i think a structure that tall would be too unstable. thinking of making a platform with hooks and hanging it from the sill on the wall. this is a commercial style building. the main question is, is it necessary?

From Iddee's response, apparently getting the entrance very close to the hive is necessary. You can brace the support if you like. Or perhaps string the hive from above. This is where innovation and creativity play a big part. I'd browse thru this:
http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...e/TRAP%20OUTS/
...for some ideas. However you do it, make sure it's secure and safe. If you tie it from the top, try to have the lines far enough apart that the box doesn't swing, or have guy lines to the ground to help keep it stationary.

Be well,
Mike

[papa bear]

thanks, mike. "nothing is impossiable, but either inprobable or impractable"

[meganm]

Iddee, I've got a chance to do a removal from a house... a cutout looks huge (interior wall, exterior wall, ceiling space, and ductwork) so after chatting with mike v, I'm considering a trapout. I've got photos of the house and where the bees are, I'd like to chat with you about it... could you email me? meganm@sprynet.com

I'm particularly interested in anything we can do to increase the possiblity of getting the queen, I'm interested in the genes.

what about blowing in some bee-go or honey robber after the bulk of the bees are out?

thanks, megan

[meganm]

thanks for getting back to me so quickly, I think I've got a good picture of how to do this now. Mike V suggested that with 2 clear and separate working exit areas, there may be two separate hives in here. it's possible there's one in the interrior wall and one in the exterior.

my thought is that I'll set up two traps - one on each major exit. if it's two hives, no problem. if it's one hive, I'll just be trapping into splits... does that sound right?

thanks again, you're an excellent tutor, I'm feeling well equiped to go try this.

best, megan

[iddee]

Careful with the compliments....I may get the big head.

Since trap outs are mostly for getting worker bees and ridding the structure of bees, two traps will just speed up the process.

There may well be two colonies in the house. I have found as high as five colonies adjacent to one another in a house.

[Troy]

idde's comment about my being in a different climate than yours is correct. All items in beekeeping have to be adjusted for climate.

Here in FL, I have enormous trouble with SHB and so I can't really do trapouts in the hot summer months or the SHB kill it off before I can trap it out, and leave a huge mess.

About the trouble of placing the trap near the cone entrance I have another trick I have used with some success. I sealed up the hive and mounted some 3/4" PVC pipe to the wall so that the only way in and out was through my pipe. I sealed it all up and left the end of the pipe open for a few days so they get used to the new entrance, then placed the cone over the end of the pipe. This allowed me to move the entrance about 6 feet horizonatally and down about 3 feet to where the new hive body could be mounted more readily.

It worked fine. Once thing about the pipe though I would always pitch it down so any bees that die inside tend to roll out. Bees often try to carry out the dead and this allows gravity to help out.

[meganm]

so I set up my first trapout today... 2nd floor outside wall of a fire station equipment barn... here's the link to photos:

http://s343.photobucket.com/albums/o...ion%20trapout/

Iddee, thanks for your help and coaching on this!

Megan

[Chef Isaac]

Megan: The landing board should be touching the wooden base of the cone or at least as close as possible.