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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Darrington, WA, USA
    Posts
    544

    Default Rearing queens with aggressive drones in apiary?

    hi again,

    I was thinking of letting a couple NUCs raise queens but I have at least one if not 2 hives that are getting a bit aggressive (NWC and MN Hyg). I don't really want the drones from those hives mating with my queens right? I assume even if I re-queen those hives those drones will still be around in early June when i start the queens.

    Off to look for a queen book....Ive got the bug to try it.

    JoeMcc
    "Slow Down and Taste the Vanilla" - My Grandma

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Fremont, New Hampshire, USA
    Posts
    695

    Default Move them?

    Can you move the aggressive hives to another location?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Seattle, Washington State
    Posts
    4,398

    Default

    The drones from the same apiary as the hive with the mating nucs will not fly as far as the virgin queens will. At least as they saw in the books.
    Chef Isaac..Culinary Arts and Honey are a sweet mix! http://www.sweetascanbeehoneyfarm.com & http://www.adoptahive.info

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    College Station, Texas
    Posts
    6,973

    Default

    one strategy honeybees employ to limit inbreeding is a virgin queen will fly some distance from their existing hives.

    two strategies you could employ as a beekeeper would be 1) scratch the drones cells in the aggressive hive in a fairly proactive manner and/or 2) employ pollen traps or queen excluders to limit the drones from flying (back when heck was a pup they use to make these fairly funky looking contraptions that fit on the landing board that were suppose to trap in the drones.. I think I might have one up in the shop someplace).

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Darrington, WA, USA
    Posts
    544

    Default

    I know the next apiary over is a friend of mine that keeps all italians....so I guess if I raise NWC queens she will mate with all Italian drones (if they do indeed travel away from my apiary).

    Neat stuff.... hoping to get some equipment soon and read up.

    JoeMcc
    "Slow Down and Taste the Vanilla" - My Grandma

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Seattle, Washington State
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    4,398

    Default

    Joe:

    You are assuming a lot here. You are assuming that your virgins will mate with your friends Italians but that is not a deffanet answer. You are assuming that there are no ferals around. I have read the virgins can fly up to 6 miles to find a DCA.
    Chef Isaac..Culinary Arts and Honey are a sweet mix! http://www.sweetascanbeehoneyfarm.com & http://www.adoptahive.info

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Darrington, WA, USA
    Posts
    544

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef Isaac View Post
    Joe:

    You are assuming a lot here. You are assuming that your virgins will mate with your friends Italians but that is not a deffanet answer. You are assuming that there are no ferals around. I have read the virgins can fly up to 6 miles to find a DCA.
    Wow...6 miles? I would have never guessed that.

    I would assume there are no ferals but i may be totally wrong. Im hoping to put out some swarm traps up in the hills soon to see if I can lure anything in. If I were to draw a 6 mile radius around my yard there would be at least 3 yards containing over 40 hives each.... and are 100% italian. One yard is about 1 mile, one is about 2 miles and the 3rd is about .5 miles. There is also a single hive about 1/4 mile away and Im not sure what kind of bees he has.

    JoeMcc
    "Slow Down and Taste the Vanilla" - My Grandma

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,809

    Default

    Joe, What do you mean by aggressive? How is this aggressiveness exhibited? How many years of experience w/ bees do you have?

    Is "aggressiveness" a trait that is passed on through the drones or through the queen? When a hive exhibits agressivness (highly defensive stinging) we usually requeen. Probably because that is the easy thing to do. But I don't know where the genes come from. Maybe from both, I don't know.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Darrington, WA, USA
    Posts
    544

    Default

    I was off.... checked google earth...

    Yard 1 is 2.26 miles NNE
    Yard 2 is .7 NNW
    Yard 3 is 1.1 miles SW
    Yard 4 (single hive) is .25 mile SSW
    "Slow Down and Taste the Vanilla" - My Grandma

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Darrington, WA, USA
    Posts
    544

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Joe, What do you mean by aggressive? How is this aggressiveness exhibited? How many years of experience w/ bees do you have?

    Is "aggressiveness" a trait that is passed on through the drones or through the queen? When a hive exhibits agressivness (highly defensive stinging) we usually requeen. Probably because that is the easy thing to do. But I don't know where the genes come from. Maybe from both, I don't know.
    I read somewhere that the drones have more influence than the queen herself as far as aggresivness goes.

    Ive kept bees off an on for about 10 years.

    The one particular hive wont calm with any amount of smoke....as soon as I crack the lid thier will be at least 20 bees flying at me stinging an headbutting and you can smell the alarm odor. They tend to grab on to the front of the veil , i assume detecting carbon dioxide from breath, and try to sting. When I get to this hive my kids go back to the house....

    Now in saying all this.... I took a split from them and introduced a new queen with plans to possibly rejoin it with the parent hive to re-queen it. I checked to make sure the new queen was released last weekend and noticed the NUC has settled down. So can one assume that a fresh new queen with lots of pheromone has a calming effect or is it the lower population of bees in the hive makes them less defensive?

    JoeMcc
    "Slow Down and Taste the Vanilla" - My Grandma

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Santa Rosa, California
    Posts
    86

    Default Don't worry about the drones

    JoeMcc,
    The drones are not part of the problem, its the queen that has ovipositioned eggs with sperm from a defencive drone when she matted. The other hives in your beeyard will cover the needed drones...
    Lee...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    College Station, Texas
    Posts
    6,973

    Default

    joe mcc writes:
    So can one assume that a fresh new queen with lots of pheromone has a calming effect or is it the lower population of bees in the hive makes them less defensive?

    tecumseh replies:
    or the old queen whose pheromone is weak tend to have the additional effect of making the workers nervous and defensive... much like they were always on their toes (not that bees really have toes) expecting trouble. this is likely coupled with a decrease in brood rearing which 1) means the younger brood bees have less to do and 2) the hives age demographic trends toward being a bit older (with older bees being a bit more likely to sting).

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