I bought three packages of them this year and just wondered if there was anything that I should expect or look out for like excessive swarming or anything else. I have Italians and decided on a bee that eats less and carnis seem to fit the bill.
I don't find NWC to be any swarmier than Italians. However, it is best to keep ahead of them with empty boxes on. You may need to coax them up into the new boxes by placing a few frames from the broodnest into the new box. Don't assume they will move up into empty equipment, as about half the time they choose to swarm instead.
I was amazed at how much brood there was in the hive last week.... I went ahead and pulled 3 frames of brood and put them in a NUC box with a new queen. As soon as the maples pop open I think i will super them.
I also don’t find them any more prone to swarming than any other race I have. They build up fast in the spring and forage in cooler weather than Italian, which is good for the blueberries I am trying to pollinate. I think you will find them satisfactory, I know I have.
I just requeened an overwintered hive with a carniolan queen. I was looking to try them next year, but needed a queen right away and a local master beekeeper had her, so... I'll definitely be diligent about the swarming.
The ones I have seem to build up faster,are good honey producers,gentle in nature and seldom if ever rob.The italians I have are good honey producers, but seem to keep laying late into the fall,which makes them go into the winter with to much brood.When the nectur flow is over I have more trouble with the italian bees robbing out other hives than any other breed I!ve ever had.This will probably start a debat but I!m changing over to carniolan!s.I think you will like her.Good luck.
Thanks for the info as I said I initially went to them because they tend to winter over on less. Not that I wish to take more from them it's that my italians went through two brood boxes and half way through a super and I had to feed them to boot to make sure they would be ok. Decided they eat way to much but had heard that carnis build real fast in spring and if not caught soon enough they would swarm.Thought they would be a good canidate for my first topbar hive and still do. When it comes time to requeen the italians a carni will probably be my choice. All though I have thought about playing around with a few russians. Still a little undecided on that one since my little boy really likes to get close and watch and have heard that russians can be a little tempermental. Maybe after he gets a little older and knows to listen a little better.
We're in the process of transitioning ~2000 hives from Italians to Carnis over the next couple of years, very pleased with the initial results They change gears quicker than the Italians. Spring buildup happens rapidly which is a big priority since our first major flow (manuka) is also the most valuable. Swarming doesn't appear to be substantially more problematic than with the Italians-- and if they do go they'll build back up in a hurry and you'll still get a quality harvest. In the autumn they dial down a bit earlier than Italians. At the moment (late autumn) brood is down to 1-2 frames and ~6 frames bees in 1 deep, overwinter with stores they have(7/8) until mid august, but winters are quite mild here. Also gotten away with only 2 Bayvarol treatments/year the last 2 years instead of 3 w/Italians. Haven't noticed a robbing difference-- I think desire of a free meal is universal.
Of course every location and season is different but this has been my experience-- I don't think you'll bee disappointed.
Trapperbob mentioned NWC. My understanding is the with the NWC bee, they were trying to breed a bee which had many of the desirable characteristics of the Carniolan bee, but without some of the deficits of that bee. In other words, NWC and Carniolan are not quite the same thing. Is that essentially correct-or have I misunderstood?
Trapperbob mentioned NWC. My understanding is the with the NWC bee, they were trying to breed a bee which had many of the desirable characteristics of the Carniolan bee, but without some of the deficits of that bee. In other words, NWC and Carniolan are not quite the same thing. Is that essentially correct-or have I misunderstood?
NWC are Carniolan queens that have been selectively bred in Sue Coby's breeding program. They have been selected for hygenic behavior, and rapid spring buildup. Their Carniolan queens on Red Bull......
We have more than 2.000 colonies with Carniolans Queens, are excellent.
In winter no brood the queen stop laying eggs, very few bees for wintering, and when you start incentive syrup the colony increase very quickly.
Peggjam and Gabriel, thanks for clearing that up. I had read something on Sue Coby's research that indicated otherwise. But I also know of several beekeepers who swear by their NWC. Sounds like Gabriel may be one of them.
NWC will give you pause when you check them in late winter. Very small clusters! So small that you're sure they will never produce a crop, but they have the capability to increase very rapidily and produce well. I have not found them to have more swarm problems than any other bee.
If your area has ferals or other Italian bees, NWC will get robbed whether you keep Italians in your yard or not. Down here at least, NWC shut down brood rearing during the summer dearth and the Italians/ferals rob them blind. I introduced a few to get some new genetics, but most were superceded in a few weeks. I think one lasted the summer. They did seem to have a calming influence, but they can't compete here IMHO. Where you don't have extended summer dearth, they will likely make you money.
I seem to be able to reduce robbing by using robber screens and reducing the entrance. Some don't like the screens, but I use them, if hiving a new package, caught swarm and during dearths. I have been thinking about adding NWC's next year or the year after.
Brood nest expansion of NWC's in the spring can be explosive. For example, I had one colony that I reversed on April 6th which had only 4 frames of brood. I inspected it again 3 weeks later on the 27th and was very surprised to find 12 frames of brood. I made some changes to provide them some overhead open space and reduce congestion.
I would suspect that the NWC reputation of being "swarmy" is probably a direct result of procrastinating beekeepers being inattentive and not anticipating this kind of rapid growth in early spring. You really need to stay a step ahead of them.
Am looking for 5 NWCs. Can anyone please recommend a good source? I know Strachan sells them at $21/ea + ship. Seems a bit pricey to me. Other suggestions/ recommendations would be appreciated.
I tried a couple of Strachan queens a several years ago and they swarmed right after the bees released them from the mailing cages. I think maybe they were virgins rather than mated queens and the colony swarmed with queen when she went on a mating flight. It wasn't long before they were superceded too.
Honeybees swarm with the older queen, many times when the first queen cell is capped. Virgin queens don’t have the developed pheromones that a mated queen have so the swarm wouldn’t be interested in leaving with her.
Your hives might have already been in a swarming mood when you replaced the queen and once you are in a swarm control mode it is hard to get them out of the mood.
Brent:
I'm confused--I thought virgin queens do sometimes swarm. I agree the prime swarm has the old queen, but the second or third swarms leave with the virgins as they hatch out. So do only mated older queens leave with swarms? Do queens get shipped prior to mating? I remember one of their marked queens flying off the comb soon after requeening when I checked to see if she was out and laying. Mated queens tend not to fly--I think. Maybe they had poor weather in California for mating prior to shipping?
Virgins may in fact leave with a swarm but it’s my understanding that they will not be the head of the swarm.
Afterswarms which happen often leave with newly mated queens, logically if a swarm left with a virgin queen, would delay the swarm from starting brood rearing once they established a new nest site, and time is critical for a swarm. Or if she failed to mate it would be a death sentence for the swarm.
If I discover a hive has swarmed, I will inspect to see how many queen cells are ready to hatch out and what stages of development they are in, I will select two or three of the best cells and destroy the rest. This should discourage afterswarming because the first queen out will take care of her sisters and with only one queen the hive will get back to business and get out of the swarming mood, and give them time to rebuild and you might even get a surplus of honey depending if they swarmed early enough in the season.
All this said honeybees do things that spell their own doom but for the most part they only do things that give them the best chance for survival .
There is a good book out “ Bee Sex Essentials” by Larry Connor I haven’t read the entire book yet but what I have read so far is excellent
Brent:
I found an article in ABJ November 2000 by Ralph V. Russ that describes what I saw as a "virgin queen mating swarm". Mr. Russ says, " the virgin queen mating swarm is not a true swarm. The queen has no intention of permanently leaving the hive. There are times when a virgin queen has a very attractive (or copious amount of) queen substance. The phermone 9-hydroxy-2-decenoic acid is most likely the responsible agent for this attractiveness. Workers and drones will depart the hive when this particular virgin queen leaves for ther orientation flight. The virgin lands on a tree limb and the others will congregate with her." It's a nice article if you can get a copy. Mr Russ says that these "swarms" can range is size from one to two quarts in size. He says these bees will stay out of the hive while the virgin queen is on her mating flights and if left alone will eventually return with the newly mated queen to the hive.
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Beesource Beekeeping Forums
1.8M posts
54.7K members
Since 1999
A forum community dedicated to beekeeping, bee owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about breeding, honey production, health, behavior, hives, housing, adopting, care, classifieds, and more!