Online or Offline

[KES]

If you've been following this thread, you've seen that I'm trying to create a software solution for hive management and record keeping. For those who haven't seen it, I've posted my idea on a crowd sourcing website called Cambrianhouse.com and it's received an overwhelming amount of favorable comments. I've been contacted by people who would like to be a part of creating a site and people who are interested in designing the app itself. The idea is currently being voted on and the voting round will end on Wednesday at noon (CST).

After sixty-some comments, several questions about the basic framework have risen to the top. First and foremost, we need to determine whether or not this should be an online app or a downloadable, client side app. Great arguments for both sides have been made and I would encourage you to review the comments (in the link above) before you vote here.

I know there have been several attempts at designing an application for beekeepers. I strongly believe that approaching this particular design, both from the side of the beekeeper and the side of professional software engineering, could result in an excellent solution for beekeepers everywhere. The "crowd" is looking to you to help make this, and many other decisions about the program. Please help them design what you're looking for.

Thanks for taking time to vote.

Ken

[peggjam]

I would like a software program that uses bar codes so each hive could be scanned into a laptop, and information about that hives progress charted.

[KES]

Thanks for the comment peggjam.

[Sundance]

PJ is spot on as far as I am concerned. Nowadays UPC scanners
have come down to levels the average guy can afford.

Being able to scan would be fast and easy.

[JoeMcc]

It would be nice to swipe a barcode in the field....then log into the net via a laptop and send the files back to be read by any PC back at the office.

If during inspection you found you were needing to replace 10 frames, 2 hives are queenless, 3 hives have failing queen, this hive needs fed, or anything like that can be entered in the field. A summary can be printed back at the office. Then a list by yard of materials can be printed or a list of work needed in that yard. You could even get down to how long it should take to complete all the tasks for each yard for time organization. If it does inventory you could know in the field what you have back at the shop and if you need to call your supplier while heading back to the office.

Just some random thoughts...

Joe

[KES]

Thanks for the comments, I'm going to recap yours JoeMcc on the idea page to get some feedback on it.

Don't forget to provide some information on how to offer this program. Online, offline or some combination of both.

[peggjam]

"Just some random thoughts..."

Better than random thoughts, that's a software program after my own heart.... Need to be able to enter more than a hundred hives though, and handle mutiple yards.

[tileguy]

Online would be easiest here..... Or a combo...Good Luck
T.G.

[KES]

My vote is for a combination of the two. Basically, I want to make sure that no one ever loses a few years of records due to some kind of snafu. I like having the whole thing online but with the ability to export data for backup. Maybe a client-side app that syncs with the online module.

[arthur]

downloadable, because you would hate to have the site go down due to lack of money, or disinterest, or an untimely death.

as far as the fear of losing data, that could happen online as well. One should be responsible for one's own backup. Heck, just export the data, then send it to yourself in an email (if the file is small enough).

[GRIMBEE]

I prefer a pencil and notebook, It doesn't need power nor does it get viruses or worms. My ledger does not crash or need time to load up.

[Hill's Hivery]

It would be nice to swipe a barcode in the field....then log into the net via a laptop and send the files back to be read by any PC back at the office.

If during inspection you found you were needing to replace 10 frames, 2 hives are queenless, 3 hives have failing queen, this hive needs fed, or anything like that can be entered in the field. A summary can be printed back at the office. Then a list by yard of materials can be printed or a list of work needed in that yard. You could even get down to how long it should take to complete all the tasks for each yard for time organization. If it does inventory you could know in the field what you have back at the shop and if you need to call your supplier while heading back to the office.

Joe

Just a thought somewhat on this same line of thought. I never thought about a barcode system. If you would be able to scan the barcode and the hive information come up on you system immediately. For example, if you scan a hive and my palm pilot hooked to the scanner immediately shows I needs a queen, feed, med treatment, should have an emerging queen, etc. If you are going to go all the way to scan, might as well have the info in the field immediately. I would think that you would basically have to have the ability to sync with your system at home at a later time. Could drastically save time for those blessed with several hundered hives.

P.S. Oh and I would lean toward either client side or combination. Web based you would have to reenter the data again once you get home.

[drobbins]

I piddled around with a hive management program once
I wrote it in java in such a way that it could either run as a web applet connected to a backend database or by switching a boolean in the code it would have a java database built into the codebase and run as a stand alone java desktop app
I'd be glad to show anybody how I did it
I like the online version better but the only problem is it takes quite a bit more knowledge to setup
here's a link to the app

http://www.drobbins.net/bee's/honeyjar.html

leave the password blank
it isn't functional at the moment because I don't have the backend database setup

Dave

[Chef Isaac]

I too have written some hive programs a few years back. It can be complicated and everyone seems to want something different. For example, queen rearing info is important to me but might not be important to Joe.

I cant wait to see what comes of this. So far, nothing beats the method that I learned from Grant. But I would love to go into the computer age with keeping notes, etc.

[KES]

Thanks Chef, I'm interested in seeing how this turnes out as well. There is some very real excitment on the part of people who want to build it. We're also going to need the insight of this community. Ideas are flying on the idea page over at cambrianhouse.com. Also, voting ends tomorrow at noon CST and our idea is currently in the lead in all catagories. That's pretty exciting.

[arthur]

although I previously said I prefer a download-able application....in this age of mobile computing, it would be nice to have a program that would run on smartphones. But the problem there is that it is unreasonable to expect an applilcation for all the different OSes.

So if you did it online, that would be useful for mobile phones.

I can see the advantages of both.

[Chef Isaac]

Kes:

I really do look forward in seeing what you all produce. Feel free to contact me if you need any ideas or just someone to bounce ideas off of.

[KES]

What about this; Let's say there was a client-side app that allowed you to collect and view the data. You could also keep it on your lappie and take it to the hives during inspection. Then when you come back, you can sync that data with the online program. This would allow you to access your hive management tools and data from anywhere in the world, provide a backup solution, collect local and regional data for trend tracking and create a community where the data could be reviewed (based on your privacy settings).

Let me also add this to the mix. One of the biggest issues with a complete client side app is distribution and keeping the program updated. If we were to make CD's and mail them out to everyone, the distribution costs would drive up the cost of the app to a point where it was no longer worth buying. On the other hand, if we had an online app, the program would always be easily updated and maintained. I've always been someone who wanted only a client side solution for just about everything but the trend today is clearly moving to hosting everything online. I think the above idea might go a long way to providing for both issues. I look for this to be a hive management program that grows with the input from beekeepers. In order to continue adding on functionality, it really needs to be an online app.

Thoughts?

[arthur]

Why can't one just download the application (less cost than mailing CDs)?

Also, updates could be downloadable as well for a client side application.

[Swobee]

Combination- makes downloads for updated formats & other changes easier. A web based backup may be nice, also. If you as administrator want to do some survey, you can glean that data from your database. Signing on for the management software could include permission assumed for information gathering.

Market research, trends, and similar items could be tracked more readily than waiting for members tos answer to a survey request. Remember, statistics don't lie, but statistitions do!