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For those removing hives out of walls.

12K views 43 replies 24 participants last post by  odfrank 
#1 ·
Ok, I removed my first hive from a wall of an old house last year.

What I discovered I needed was a way to put the comb into a frame.

The only way known to me at the time was to load the empty frame with rubber bands then take the cut comb put in the frame and then slide the rubber bands over the comb to hold it in place.

It works great if you have 3 arms! When I'm by myself this was very difficult. So I started thinking.

How can I put comb into a frame with ONE hand.

Here is what I came up with. A bit of work but I think it will work nicely. I am making several of them for the next job I have at removing a hive from a wall. I'll report how it works.

For now here are some pics of what my invention is.

Take a normal frame and split it in two LONG ways. This is best done with a jigsaw and while the frame is APART.

The pic you see is assembled.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Beekeeping/DSCN6558.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Beekeeping/DSCN6559.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Beekeeping/DSCN6560.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Beekeeping/DSCN6557.jpg

After much fiddling around and many attempts at what to do.

I finally came up with the idea of taking part of a plastic 1" square fenceing and cutting out 'strips' to staple in place on the outside. These strips may be later substitued for wire, but right now I'm in the design and testing mode.

The 'fencing' or strands take the place of the old rubber bands to hold the new comb in place.

Here is a pic of them stapled in place. Stapling them in place while going around the OUTSIDE of the frame is the idea.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Beekeeping/DSCN6551.jpg

A closer look. Notice these are NEW frames and the edge bar that is used to hold the foundation in place has not even been removed.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Beekeeping/DSCN6552.jpg
http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Beekeeping/DSCN6553.jpg

Now here is where the Genius comes into play. (If I may say so.. :) )

set the frame into the super, open as you see in this pic.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Beekeeping/DSCN6556.jpg

NOW you cut your comb out of the wall hive to the right size.

Use two hands to gently place it into the frame, and close it.

Your comb now has the strands from both sides of the frame wrapped around it holding it in place and and you have it in the frame AND in the super. On to the next one!

What do you think?
 
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#2 ·
Ditto

Blammer, we are on the same wavelength. I did my first removal yesterday and I made some frames with 1" square bird netting on one side and stapled it on.

Truth be told, I didn't need them and I took them apart today with a staple remover. I decided that the 1" plastic would interfere with too many cells.

The way you have cut the plastic out in most spots is ingenius. I may try it again. Thanks for the innovation.
 
#36 ·
Follow-up

These are super simple to make, very sturdy, though, to use hinges makes them a little pricey.
(Cheap hinge source, anyone?!)
Instead, I cut little aluminum flashing squares and stapled them to the bottom, only had one come loose during use, I bent the frame open way too far...one only needs to slightly open the frame to insert the comb. Next batch, I may run the flashing strip the length of the botton to be able to include more staples. Also, medium super size may usually be too small for a lot of cut-outs. A standard hive body is just right for a colony in between flood joist...fits perfectly except for rounded edges, the bees fill in the corners within days.
One other alteration I would recommend in the online design: The top bar really needs to have a bee space at least in the middle of the bar. One half of a bee space each side trimmed out so the bees can easily get up into a super, if one has a big cut-out and wants to try to get some honey out of it the same year. This would combine the best elements of your design and the one mentioned.
Of course, one would wish to reuse the frames next year...so...how?
After the bees have settled down at home, I begin to insert nice new frames and foundation (I use small cell...highly recommended!) into the middle of the brood, removing a swarm frame on the side which is mainly honey or pollen anyway. (I feed this one back to the bees.) More wax to the wax pot.
You have the bees converted to standard frames gradually , AND soon regressed.
Works for me...whatever works for you, use it...

Roy
 
#7 ·
Look Up WvBeekeeper he has swarm frames that have the wire run through holes on the sides of the bars with it split the way you have it with a hinge in the bottom cornor. Very practicle and he sells them. Look in the for sale place and look for swarm catch frames for sale. It is there he has been making them for a while. I like the wire running horzontaly as it will hold the comb in better if you have to place more the one piece in there or it has a twist to it. Verticle wires dont hold it in place very well and allows the sides to curl when you have a colony cutout that has very awkward twisted snake like combs. And when you have to take bits and pieces after you took long cuts but you want to save as much brood as you can it really helps allot. Congrats on thinking something up to help you with what you needed. I really think one of the beekeeping supply places would start to carry some with the horrozontal wire as I would buy a couple of hives full of them. They sell the bee vacs now why not the frames.
He does not charge to much I think If I remember right the med were 4 something and the deeps were 5 something because of the time wireing all of them and drilling extra holes in the ends and cutting them in half.


Angi

Angi
 
#9 ·
Just want to give credit where credit is due. These frames were "invented" by Ed and Dee Lusby. I had never seen or heard of such a frame till I met the Lusby's many years ago. The plans specifically say that they are for personal and non-profit use only.
 
#13 ·
all I know is that NOBODY around in my neck of the woods had any idea other than the rubber band idea. And to me that sucked!

Not even experienced (5 yrs or more with 20 or more hives) knew of anything.

so I set out to "invent" or make something better.

Oh well.

I don't have any old frames all I have is new so cutting a few new ones was no big deal to me.

Somebody else may have invented it, but the person who refines it and presents it to the masses at a reasonable price is the one who will 'cash in'.
 
#15 ·
Very nice work, and better yet, diligent work to improve the basic idea.
Best of all, you used "whatever was lying around".

All these traits are the classic traits of craftsmanship in Engineering.

But even the Lusby's did not invent the swam-catching frame.
I'd have to hunt through a pile of books to find it, but I know I've seen
an old photo of something very similar. Maybe an old edition of ABC&XYZ
maybe and old edition of Hive&Honeybee. Maybe one of Eva Crane's books.

For those stuck using rubber bands, the trick here is to put 2 rubber bands
on a frame on one side. If you are right-handed, pick up the frame in your
left hand, with the rubber bands to the left. Side the comb into the frame,
between the rubber bands. Side the rightmost rubber band further towards
the right. Comb is nestled in the frame.

No, that's not right - the comb is mangled, and it looks a mess.
If you did not bee-vac the bees off, the bees are angry, and are flying
up at your face.

But a real engineer can do for a dollar what anyone could do for two dollars, so the un-split frames with the warp-around fence stuff is what I
would use. I bee vac compulsively, so I won't have a problem with using
a staple gun to attach the last few inches of wrap to the top-bar.
 
#19 ·
I never do cutouts without 1 or 2 helpers (occasionally I will even have 3 helpers, when my 14yr old needs cash LOL), so the rubber bands are not an issue as there is always one person to hold the comb in the frame just right and another to carefully band it without damage to bees or brood.
 
#21 ·
I don't like swarm frames. The problem they present is getting them circulated back out of the hive and the comb removed so you can reuse them. I use rubber bands and find it quick and easy. The bees chew the rubberbands off the frames and remove them from the hive. I never have to break good comb out of frames so I can do another cutout.
 
#22 ·
Good point Bluegrass. You may need 10 deep catch frames for a cut out, ($50), and since they are stuck in another hive, you have to keep buying them for the next cutouts. That would get expensive. You could make your own, but It would be time consuming. I've never done a cutout, but the rubber band meathod is what I would use if I did. What size rubber bands do you use.?
 
#24 ·
i just squished the comb onto the wires in the middle of the frame. (i had small sections that i cut in with a sideways motion - a bigger comb you could place on a board cut to size so the frame fits over it and then push the wire in with one of them small screwdrivers for glasses). the bees cleaned out the mess and fixed everything up. i figured the loss wasn't so much, all things considered. moreover, it's good to have wires where they belong. four weeks later all seems fine to me.
 
#25 ·
My catch frames are made the same way except that I staple a strip of cloth along the top of the top bars to form a hinge. Since most of the comb from a cutout is old and very strong so I don't use any wires or internal supports. I just close the frame over a section of comb like a book, cut away the outside comb, and hold the book closed with a couple rubber bands. It takes less than two minutes to do. After I get the bees established I put the swarm frames above an excluder until all the brood is emerged, remove the old comb and store the frame until needed again.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Plastic Chicken Wire

I've recently tried using thin plastic chicken netting (the netting is plastic not the chickens) :D The mesh is 1" and you can cut it with scissors.

I cut a piece slightly larger than twice the size of a frame. Then I staple it to one side of a frame, leaving the surplus loose for the moment.

When I'm doing a cut-out, I lay a prepared frame on a board, cut out a comb and lay it in the frame, cutting off excess to make it fit. Then I fold the netting over and tack it with a staple gun to hold the comb in place, trim off any extra netting and put it in a hive box.

It's early days but I think it's going to work fine. When the bees have fixed the combs in the frame I think I'll be able to remove the mesh without causing too much damage.

It's cheap, easy and seems to hold the combs firmly when the hive is transported home.
 
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