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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    232

    Default For those removing hives out of walls.

    Ok, I removed my first hive from a wall of an old house last year.

    What I discovered I needed was a way to put the comb into a frame.

    The only way known to me at the time was to load the empty frame with rubber bands then take the cut comb put in the frame and then slide the rubber bands over the comb to hold it in place.

    It works great if you have 3 arms! When I'm by myself this was very difficult. So I started thinking.

    How can I put comb into a frame with ONE hand.

    Here is what I came up with. A bit of work but I think it will work nicely. I am making several of them for the next job I have at removing a hive from a wall. I'll report how it works.

    For now here are some pics of what my invention is.

    Take a normal frame and split it in two LONG ways. This is best done with a jigsaw and while the frame is APART.

    The pic you see is assembled.

    http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g8...g/DSCN6558.jpg
    http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g8...g/DSCN6559.jpg

    http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g8...g/DSCN6560.jpg
    http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g8...g/DSCN6557.jpg

    After much fiddling around and many attempts at what to do.

    I finally came up with the idea of taking part of a plastic 1" square fenceing and cutting out 'strips' to staple in place on the outside. These strips may be later substitued for wire, but right now I'm in the design and testing mode.

    The 'fencing' or strands take the place of the old rubber bands to hold the new comb in place.

    Here is a pic of them stapled in place. Stapling them in place while going around the OUTSIDE of the frame is the idea.

    http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g8...g/DSCN6551.jpg

    A closer look. Notice these are NEW frames and the edge bar that is used to hold the foundation in place has not even been removed.

    http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g8...g/DSCN6552.jpg
    http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g8...g/DSCN6553.jpg

    Now here is where the Genius comes into play. (If I may say so.. )

    set the frame into the super, open as you see in this pic.

    http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g8...g/DSCN6556.jpg

    NOW you cut your comb out of the wall hive to the right size.

    Use two hands to gently place it into the frame, and close it.

    Your comb now has the strands from both sides of the frame wrapped around it holding it in place and and you have it in the frame AND in the super. On to the next one!

    What do you think?
    When your ship comes in, make sure you are willing to unload it.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Austin TX USA
    Posts
    300

    Default Ditto

    Blammer, we are on the same wavelength. I did my first removal yesterday and I made some frames with 1" square bird netting on one side and stapled it on.

    Truth be told, I didn't need them and I took them apart today with a staple remover. I decided that the 1" plastic would interfere with too many cells.

    The way you have cut the plastic out in most spots is ingenius. I may try it again. Thanks for the innovation.
    ~May your hive thrive
    Aisha

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Greenville, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,380

    Default

    Congratulations, you invented the swarm frame. Seriously, do a search here for Swarm Frame. It's been done and you can buy or make them.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    232

    Default

    I did a search and found NOTHING like what I have.

    If you do have some links please post them I'd be interested to see them.
    Last edited by blammer; 04-14-2008 at 09:18 PM.
    When your ship comes in, make sure you are willing to unload it.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    374

    Default

    swarm frame kinda looks like your invention in my opinion.

    http://www.beesource.com/plans/swarmframe.htm

    Of course I had never heard of a swarm frame before this thread.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    232

    Default

    Well all right!

    Never would have called it a swarm frame but I can see how that name came to be, cause of what they were using it for.

    How much are they per frame?
    When your ship comes in, make sure you are willing to unload it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Hanford Ca
    Posts
    146

    Default

    Look Up WvBeekeeper he has swarm frames that have the wire run through holes on the sides of the bars with it split the way you have it with a hinge in the bottom cornor. Very practicle and he sells them. Look in the for sale place and look for swarm catch frames for sale. It is there he has been making them for a while. I like the wire running horzontaly as it will hold the comb in better if you have to place more the one piece in there or it has a twist to it. Verticle wires dont hold it in place very well and allows the sides to curl when you have a colony cutout that has very awkward twisted snake like combs. And when you have to take bits and pieces after you took long cuts but you want to save as much brood as you can it really helps allot. Congrats on thinking something up to help you with what you needed. I really think one of the beekeeping supply places would start to carry some with the horrozontal wire as I would buy a couple of hives full of them. They sell the bee vacs now why not the frames.
    He does not charge to much I think If I remember right the med were 4 something and the deeps were 5 something because of the time wireing all of them and drilling extra holes in the ends and cutting them in half.


    Angi

    Angi

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,212

    Default

    Yep. That's the ticket. You did just the right thing. They work great don't they.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,462

    Default

    Just want to give credit where credit is due. These frames were "invented" by Ed and Dee Lusby. I had never seen or heard of such a frame till I met the Lusby's many years ago. The plans specifically say that they are for personal and non-profit use only.
    Regards, Barry

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lake county, Indiana 46408-4109
    Posts
    3,539

    Default

    And you can make the frames from plans from beesource.com from scrap that you have around the shop and not cut up nice frames
    Ed, KA9CTT profanity is IGNORANCE made audible
    you can`t fix stupid not even with duct tape

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Geneva,Florida, Seminole USA
    Posts
    290

    Default

    Ross, I didn't want to pop his bubble, he sounded so proud Guess its like they say"theres nothing new under the sun"

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Greenville, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,380

    Default

    Sorry, just going for full disclosure

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    232

    Default

    all I know is that NOBODY around in my neck of the woods had any idea other than the rubber band idea. And to me that sucked!

    Not even experienced (5 yrs or more with 20 or more hives) knew of anything.

    so I set out to "invent" or make something better.

    Oh well.

    I don't have any old frames all I have is new so cutting a few new ones was no big deal to me.

    Somebody else may have invented it, but the person who refines it and presents it to the masses at a reasonable price is the one who will 'cash in'.
    When your ship comes in, make sure you are willing to unload it.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Greenville, TX, USA
    Posts
    4,380

    Default

    "cash in" and beekeeping seldom go in the same sentence (unless it's "put some more cash in"). I still use rubber bands and I've been seeing swarm frames for a few years at least. Good luck.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    3,401

    Default

    Very nice work, and better yet, diligent work to improve the basic idea.
    Best of all, you used "whatever was lying around".

    All these traits are the classic traits of craftsmanship in Engineering.

    But even the Lusby's did not invent the swam-catching frame.
    I'd have to hunt through a pile of books to find it, but I know I've seen
    an old photo of something very similar. Maybe an old edition of ABC&XYZ
    maybe and old edition of Hive&Honeybee. Maybe one of Eva Crane's books.

    For those stuck using rubber bands, the trick here is to put 2 rubber bands
    on a frame on one side. If you are right-handed, pick up the frame in your
    left hand, with the rubber bands to the left. Side the comb into the frame,
    between the rubber bands. Side the rightmost rubber band further towards
    the right. Comb is nestled in the frame.

    No, that's not right - the comb is mangled, and it looks a mess.
    If you did not bee-vac the bees off, the bees are angry, and are flying
    up at your face.

    But a real engineer can do for a dollar what anyone could do for two dollars, so the un-split frames with the warp-around fence stuff is what I
    would use. I bee vac compulsively, so I won't have a problem with using
    a staple gun to attach the last few inches of wrap to the top-bar.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    Posts
    5,159

    Wink

    I'm trying to figure how many of them I would need. Lets see, three cutouts per week all summer long, that would make, uh, naw forget it. I'll stay with the empty frames and rubber bands. I have become quite adept to working the rubber bands with the hook end of the hive tool.
    Bullseye Bill in The Scenic Flint Hills , KS
    www.myspace.com/dukewilliam

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Kirkland, WA, USA
    Posts
    1,020

    Default

    They certainly are useful, aren't they? I have nothing but respect for those who do the "rubber band and blank frame method but catch frame sure are nice, and if you have a bunch of solid white comb it's basically mush if you try ot band it in.
    http://www.voiceofthehive.com - Tales of Beekeeping and Honeybees

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    232

    Default

    I found someone who will make my frames for me.

    I hope to test them out soon, and will report back with results.

    If anyone is interested, I'll get some details on pricing for you.
    When your ship comes in, make sure you are willing to unload it.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cleveland, Texas
    Posts
    1,378

    Default

    I never do cutouts without 1 or 2 helpers (occasionally I will even have 3 helpers, when my 14yr old needs cash LOL), so the rubber bands are not an issue as there is always one person to hold the comb in the frame just right and another to carefully band it without damage to bees or brood.
    "The UNKNOWN, huh? That would be SNORBERT ZANGOX over in Waycross."

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    232

    Default

    You're fortunate.

    Usually it's just me, as most of my "help" usually is "busy" for some reason or another.
    When your ship comes in, make sure you are willing to unload it.

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