No honey in Farmer's Market?

[Dan Williamson]

I received a call from a Chamber of Commerce person for an un-named town on Friday.

I was expecting a call from them as I had been told that they were looking to have a farmers market as part of their town festival as a new effort at promoting local produce and local farmers.

The woman informed me (on the answering machinge) that at their recent Chamber of Commerce board meeting they had decided that "honey people" would not be included as part of the Farmers Market section. However, I could submit an application pending approval for inclusion in another part of their festival. She stated that they decided they only wanted the vegetable and fruit growers type farmers.

What????? Since when does honey not belong in a farmers market? What do they think actually pollinates some of their produce?

I haven't yet talked to this lady in person but will be contacting her today. I have a fairly good idea of how I am going to approach the subject but wanted some input from others? (I intend to be very kind and humble. I do NOT want to appear as some hot-head.... so its probably best I wasn't there when she called! )

I've got to call about 11am CST today.. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[deknow]

...do you know any of the other sellers at the market? do you have bees with any of them?

imho, i think you'd have a stronger case if you got the fruit and vegatable sellers speak on your behalf.

deknow

[Shapleigh's Bees]

Would have to hear the conversation, but my initial inclination would be along those lines.

If the argument is that folks were selling other stuff like crafts or prepared food (pies and cookies) and they had to draw the line somewhere, I could see some point to it. I mean if they want a farmer's market and not a craft fair. Maybe you can get that line moved because pure honey needs no more labeling than apples. Honey is honey and apples are apples.

[Dan Williamson]

My beef is that I will be pollinating for two of the farmers who's products WILL BE INCLUDED or at least will be ALLOWED to be included. I do not know whether or not they will participate in the market.

My bees will also PRODUCE honey from the very same plants that will produce fruit for the farmers market. The honey is NOT altered in anyway and is simply packaged for ease of use by the customer. Just like any other product there.

[Chef Isaac]

I would educate her. I might ask who made the decision and see if you can talk with them.

[deknow]

...or tag along with one of the farmers at their booth.

deknow

[Shapleigh's Bees]

Dan, I'm with you. Just don't make her "set her feet." Once she gets defensive, you're out. If you can guide her that the line is drawn in the wrong spot, then you have a chance.

Otherwise, tell her you produce apples. Offer one apple for sale at $500, and put your honey around it.

[T-Bone 369]

I'l go out on a limb here and assume that the root if their concerns are liability for "processed" product. We sell mostly fruit and vegies at several markets but offer honey and cider also. Both the cider and the honey are considered "processed" for both public health and WIC/Senior Nutrition purposes. Listen to their concerns and keep cool - dealing with anyone in government is an exercise in self control. If they have concerns about how the honey is harvested and packaged be perpared to explain how you do it and what measures you take to keep the product safe and healthy. It may be persuasive, it may not. Good luck.

T

[Dan Williamson]

I'l go out on a limb here and assume that the root if their concerns are liability for "processed" product. We sell mostly fruit and vegies at several markets but offer honey and cider also. Both the cider and the honey are considered "processed" for both public health and WIC/Senior Nutrition purposes. Listen to their concerns and keep cool - dealing with anyone in government is an exercise in self control. If they have concerns about how the honey is harvested and packaged be perpared to explain how you do it and what measures you take to keep the product safe and healthy. It may be persuasive, it may not. Good luck.

T

Good point and she may bring up that. However, I carry liability insurance so that argument won't hold much water.

[John Gesner]

Initially, like you, I had a different reaction and wouldn't have wanted to talk to them immediately either. But I wonder what their reasoning is and what area you WOULD be included in. At the one fair that I've been involved in, honey is displayed in an area that shares space with prepared foods (cakes and pies) and canned goods. This could be an opportunity to educate a different demographic...

It sounds like they're consolidating space, for some reason. I don't think I'd get too fired up about it, Dan. Look at it this way, the "almighty" Ohio State Fair doesn't take honey at ALL! It's turned into more of an amusement park than an agricultural fair.

[Dan Williamson]

I think part of the exclusion is the "good ol boys club". I've been told that they are quite finicky and picky about who they want included in their little group. This is probably part of the problem.

I intend to be polite... explain my case and then let the cards fall where they may. Its not worth damaging my or any other beekeepers reputations by speaking in a hot-headed manner.

[MapMan]

I wonder if the apple growers will offer bottled apple cider in the fall? Personally, I can understand their idea of keeping it to just agricultural products, as I'm sure they get a large amount of sellers wanting to hawk craft items, soap, posters, balloons, baked goods etc. But, honey is a pure agricultural commodity. Actually, I think they are doing the fruit and vegetable growers a disservice, as many folks attend farmer's markets as a family event - the more they can offer other items (maybe drawing the line at crafts or artwork or concrete gnomes), the more folks will attend the market.

MM

[Dan Williamson]

Well, I contacted the woman, It was a very polite conversation.

She stated that they wanted "FRESH" products and because my product was bottled then it didn't meet the requirement.

I replied that beans, tomatoes, cucumbers, etc were NOT sold to the customer still on the vine with the roots intact. Many of them were in bushel baskets and/or bags to make it convenient to handle the product. Jars for honey is no different. Handling 5lbs of string beans without a bag would be quite difficult for the customer. Honey without a jar/container would be be a similarly difficult proposition.

That left her nowhere to turn so she then stated that they were concerned with health department requirements regarding honey.

I had fortunately pulled up two articles by the Indiana Dept of Health that specifically addressed honey UNDER A FARMER'S MARKET HEADING. It labeled honey as a low-risk value-added product that was excluded from inspection/permit requirements other products had to meet. It did outline rules regarding handling of honey.

Then I pulled up the Indiana Dept of Agriculture website went to the Indiana Farmer's Market section and informed her that the IDA listed honey as one of the items that could be found throughout farmer's markets in Indiana. It actually invited people to visit a local farmers markets for such products. I explained to her that many people go to farmers markets to look for products like honey that is locally produced.

She thanked me for the education, asked for me to please send her links to the various articles I had referenced and said that she would try to bring up the subject again at the next meeting.

We'll see where it goes. All you can do is try!

[Shapleigh's Bees]

Dan, it sounds like you scored one for the good guys.

[ScadsOBees]

That left her nowhere to turn so she then stated that they were concerned with health department requirements regarding honey.

Ironic, really....

http://tinyurl.com/3bn7pq

"An analysis by the food advocacy group Center for Science in the Public Interest found that of more than 3,500 cases from 1990 to 2003, produce was responsible for the greatest number of individual food poisonings (though seafood caused more outbreaks). That means that while you're curled over the toilet cursing the hamburger or seafood platter you ate, the accompanying lettuce or tomato could have been the real culprit."

[ScadsOBees]

What really gets me, is when I visit a local farmers market in, say, June, I can see melons, tomatoes, peaches, apples, etc etc.

Really? In June in Michigan? Sheesh...chances are the honey is fresher. How do they ensure that all of the produce is local?

Rick

[Shapleigh's Bees]

Maine Potatoes are harvested in October.

[MapMan]

All farmer's markets are going to have their own set of rules/guidelines. You might indicate to them that successful markets offer diversity. I don't know how they can expect to be successful by scooting the honey and other processed sales away from the main agricultural area. Ag-related products shouldn't have to reside next to quilts and garden statues in an area removed from produce.

We have two extremely successful markets in our area - the Dane County Farmer's Market is considered one of the premier "producer-only" markets in the nation. Their success is based on having over 150 vendors, with a large variety of produce and secondary products. They have a three year waiting list! Likewise, St. Paul, Minnesota has a main downtown market, and 17 satellite neighborhood markets.

Check the rules on these sites:


http://www.madfarmmkt.org/


http://www.stpaulfarmersmarket.com/




MM

[BigDaddyDS]

I really thought she was going to bring up the "other" items that typically go with a honey booth. Items such as candles and soap. THOSE items definitely belong in a craft show, but oftentimes I see them paired with a honey display. (Mind you, I'm not saying they don't make for a nice looking display. And I'm not saying that there aren't a lot of candle/soap sales at these markets. I'm just saying that they're CRAFTS. Not produce.)

I've unintentionally started a tangent, haven't I? Sorry...

DS

[berkshire bee]

It's funny how things vary in different locations. In our town we can sell honey and related products at our small local farmers market. Low income residents and seniors get coupons equivalent to food stamps to spend on any food and produce offered including honey.