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Thread: 1rst Round

  1. #41
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    Dec 2005
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    Santa Rosa, California
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    Default An easy way to get some queens

    Quote Originally Posted by WVbeekeeper View Post
    I bought a few nursery frames in which the queen cells can emerge. I also have some of those plastic queen intro cages I was planning on using. I know it would be easier to add the queen cells to a nuc but would it be better than giving them a queen which has already emerged which they have to release from the cage?

    >The easy way to tell this is when the bees in the finishing hive start to remove some of the wax from around the bottom of the cells.

    I checked out "The Complete Guide to Beekeeping" by Roger Morse and have been reading it. It had some pictures of queen cells with some of the wax removed at the tip so I know exactly what you are talking about.

    I may not be around when the queens emerge so they will most likely end up in the nursery frame. If my thinking is correct they would only be in the nursery frames for one or two days before I get back to take care of them. If I use the queen cells to make the nucs I'll have to do it next Sunday, otherwise it will be the following Friday or Saturday with queens which have emerged.
    Cass,

    If you really want a quick way to make some queens, try this: Find a good quality Queen that you like with bees that work good around your way of working them.... Put the Queen in a nuc box with a couple of frames of bees and capped brood and a frame that has space for the Queen to lay eggs into in between the brood. Add some honey frames on the outside of the nuc box. Put this behind the hive with the entrance facing the opposite direction of the original hive you are going to raise the Queens from.

    Add this nuc back when you have your Queens or put it in a new hive.... This middle frame in the nuc can be switched back to the starter/finisher hive after the queen has layed in it, if the first try didn't take in the next step. A new empty brood frame should be given back to the Queen nuc box's center frame position when you do this next step.

    Now your ready to start...... Find a frame of brood with all the cells layed about the same time in the center of the frame on one side with day old eggs, they can be primed or not by the nurse bees.... Take a nail and make a grid of grooves following the cells so every other cell is distroyed, kind of like a tick-tac-toe grid but big enought for the amount of Queens you want to have pluss some.... This allows the cell bilders to creat a nice Queen cell for each of the un-distroyed eggs left in the frame. ...Now lay this frame in the center with the cells you just scratched out facing down over the brood on top of the frame bars.... Now space this frame so you have at least one half inch between the drawn comb containing the eggs you have chosen and the top bars of the brood frames.... Or, in the past I made a section of a super, about 2 inches high, notched out for the top bar to rest, on its side, and added a small support in the box to catch the botton of the frame..... This will allow you to open the hive and check the progress of the cells being drawn out into Queen cells. A super can be added with more bees and honey to this hive and a feeder frame can be used if you find there is not a honey flow going in your location.

    Watch the developement of the cells. You'll find that as the cells are drawn out and capped you can have a good idea of how many divides you will need to make up....

    If its a week of time before you visit your yard maybe you should do the queen cells at home so you can check on them every other day or so. This is a must so you can get a good idea of the process taking place inside the starter/finisher hive!
    Lee....

  2. #42
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    Dec 2005
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    Default Push on Queen cell protectors

    Quote Originally Posted by WVbeekeeper View Post
    I bought a few nursery frames in which the queen cells can emerge. I also have some of those plastic queen intro cages I was planning on using. I know it would be easier to add the queen cells to a nuc but would it be better than giving them a queen which has already emerged which they have to release from the cage?

    >The easy way to tell this is when the bees in the finishing hive start to remove some of the wax from around the bottom of the cells.

    I checked out "The Complete Guide to Beekeeping" by Roger Morse and have been reading it. It had some pictures of queen cells with some of the wax removed at the tip so I know exactly what you are talking about.

    I may not be around when the queens emerge so they will most likely end up in the nursery frame. If my thinking is correct they would only be in the nursery frames for one or two days before I get back to take care of them. If I use the queen cells to make the nucs I'll have to do it next Sunday, otherwise it will be the following Friday or Saturday with queens which have emerged.
    Cass....
    I don't know if Walter T. Kelly Company,1-800-233-2899 is still around. I purchassed some Queen cell protectors.from his catalog years ago.You push them in the comb under the cell that are ripe. They worked very well to keep all the Queens from getting in to the fight for rule. Someone might know if his family is still there in Clarkson Kentucky My catalog is from 2000. What also works.... I would roll up some cut screen and cap it with some wax rolled into a small ball with a nail in the top to hold it over the Queen cells
    Lee....

  3. #43
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    Default Royal jelly is made by the nurse bees

    Quote Originally Posted by peggjam View Post
    "Is the type of jelly fed to newly hatched larvae which is to be worker bees different than what is fed to newly hatched larvae that the bees plan on making into a queen?"

    That's pretty much it in a nutshell. The nurse bees will remove most of the RJ that you transfer with the larva, and replace it with RJ that has a much higher protien rate. I also don't prime my cups, as I find it doesn't make alot of differance on acceptance rate. Ditto for having the cells polished by the girls before grafting.
    peggjam,
    The "Royal Jelly" produced by the nurse bees and fed to the Queen and larve up to three days old... Is a glandular secretion in the mouth of the younger bees, up to six days old. Only nurse bees will have "Royal Jelly", The older bees also feed the larve after they are in to the cast of worker bees. The cast starts at three days after the first instar. Honey and pollen mixed is then fed to the larve by the rest of the worker bees older than six days. The Queen and larve in the brood chamber before the first shedding of the cuticle are fed the same food!.
    I hope this helps you with what is ment by "Royal Jelly".
    Lee....

  4. #44
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by beemanlee View Post
    peggjam,
    The "Royal Jelly" produced by the nurse bees and fed to the Queen and larve up to three days old... Is a glandular secretion in the mouth of the younger bees, up to six days old. Only nurse bees will have "Royal Jelly", The older bees also feed the larve after they are in to the cast of worker bees. The cast starts at three days after the first instar. Honey and pollen mixed is then fed to the larve by the rest of the worker bees older than six days. The Queen and larve in the brood chamber before the first shedding of the cuticle are fed the same food!.
    I hope this helps you with what is ment by "Royal Jelly".
    Lee....
    Yea, I think that's what I said......
    "I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage

  5. #45
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    Jun 2007
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    Boone County, West Virginia, USA
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    Default

    beemanlee, I've made some queens before as you described. I can get them to make emergency queens no problem. I have always wanted to graft my own so I decided to do it this year. Kelly's is still in business but they don't have the type of cell protectors you were describing but Mann Lake sells them. I place a rather large order with them last week and suggested that maybe they should sell them and the waxed cardboard nuc boxes. I bought my queen rearing supplies from Tim Arheit, Honey Run Apiaries. I bought a few nursery cages, queen cell frames, cell cups, and queen cages. He sent me few NWC queens last year so I gave him business this year.
    http://www.honeyrunapiaries.com/stor...880cbb4d3f5ae0
    I'll know in a few more days how many queens I'll have after the cells are capped. If I get at least half of what I grafted I'll be happy and the queen rearing equipment will have paid for itself. I need about 14 queens to make some splits with. The queens left over will be placed in some mini mating nucs and will be used for requeening a few colonies and hopefully there will be a few left to sell.

  6. #46
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    Default Keep on top of the operation

    Quote Originally Posted by WVbeekeeper View Post
    beemanlee, I've made some queens before as you described. I can get them to make emergency queens no problem. I have always wanted to graft my own so I decided to do it this year. Kelly's is still in business but they don't have the type of cell protectors you were describing but Mann Lake sells them. I place a rather large order with them last week and suggested that maybe they should sell them and the waxed cardboard nuc boxes. I bought my queen rearing supplies from Tim Arheit, Honey Run Apiaries. I bought a few nursery cages, queen cell frames, cell cups, and queen cages. He sent me few NWC queens last year so I gave him business this year.
    http://www.honeyrunapiaries.com/stor...880cbb4d3f5ae0
    I'll know in a few more days how many queens I'll have after the cells are capped. If I get at least half of what I grafted I'll be happy and the queen rearing equipment will have paid for itself. I need about 14 queens to make some splits with. The queens left over will be placed in some mini mating nucs and will be used for requeening a few colonies and hopefully there will be a few left to sell.
    Cass....
    It sounds like you'r on your way to making your first batch!
    Keep the feeder full, and make sure you have plenty of nurse bees in the starter/finisher hive.
    Lee.....
    Do you have a yard to trash for the nucs? Thats 14 nucs to make up with young bees.

  7. #47
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    Boone County, West Virginia, USA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by beemanlee View Post
    Do you have a yard to trash for the nucs? Thats 14 nucs to make up with young bees.
    I have shallow supers over deeps. I'm planning on taking a shallow super from each colony and giving it a queen then placing a deep over that when the queen starts laying. I checked my colonies today and the supers all have a mixture of brood, honey, and bees and are strong enough to start a colony with. For whatever queens are left over I'll be making some two by four mating nucs. I'll be starting some more cells Friday or Saturday to use in some more mini nucs.

  8. #48
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    Default Finding the Queen

    Quote Originally Posted by WVbeekeeper View Post
    I have shallow supers over deeps. I'm planning on taking a shallow super from each colony and giving it a queen then placing a deep over that when the queen starts laying. I checked my colonies today and the supers all have a mixture of brood, honey, and bees and are strong enough to start a colony with. For whatever queens are left over I'll be making some two by four mating nucs. I'll be starting some more cells Friday or Saturday to use in some more mini nucs.
    Cass...
    The job will be to find which super the Queen is laying in..... Do you have tops and bottoms at the yard? If you do then most of the work will go OK.
    Also don't plan on trashing the best laying Queen's hives, 'cause she is going to supply most of the drones for the new Queens to mate with,,, Susan Cobey says that each new Queen mates with at least 10 drones...Steve Taber says 15 drones max to fill the spermatheca.
    I like to find the Queen and take her brood to the other side of the yard and use a crayon to mark both boxes with the same identitys: A,B,C etc. just in case you want to know which Queen the brood is from later. You may want to put them back with the old queen if the new cell doesn't take..... The original top should stay with old Queen.... All the field bees will be comming back to this location....By doing this you have only nurse bees when you start to put the cells in the nuc, which makes the job of checking on the new queens easy.... They are less wanting to protect the hive and more into feeding the new Queen and brood....
    Then by two weeks you should start to see the results of your labor....
    Have a fun weekend with the bees.
    Lee.......

  9. #49
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    Jun 2007
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    Boone County, West Virginia, USA
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    Default

    Well, I had a 78% take on the queen cells. They capped 21 out of 27. I figure the ones that didn't get capped were either mangled when I grafted the larvae and I also think that maybe I accidentally put two larvae in the same cups. I checked the cell bar Wednesday evening and there were a few cells capped, I guess these were grafted from slightly older larvae. The rest were capped yesterday when I checked, which was five days after I grafted so I think this might be a good sign that the larvae I selected were the right age.
    http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...1/100_0323.jpg
    I'd like to thank everyone who replied to the post and thank you for all your help.

    There is a beekeeper from NC who will be in the area and visiting me tomorrow to give me a good hands-on lesson. I can't wait to learn firsthand from someone who has a lot of experience in queen rearing.

  10. #50
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    Mar 2004
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    Huntington, West Virginia, USA
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    Nice job, Cass!

    You are on your way..good luck! -Danno

  11. #51
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    Default Good feeling when tyhings work!

    Quote Originally Posted by WVbeekeeper View Post
    Well, I had a 78% take on the queen cells. They capped 21 out of 27. I figure the ones that didn't get capped were either mangled when I grafted the larvae and I also think that maybe I accidentally put two larvae in the same cups. I checked the cell bar Wednesday evening and there were a few cells capped, I guess these were grafted from slightly older larvae. The rest were capped yesterday when I checked, which was five days after I grafted so I think this might be a good sign that the larvae I selected were the right age.
    http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...1/100_0323.jpg
    I'd like to thank everyone who replied to the post and thank you for all your help.

    There is a beekeeper from NC who will be in the area and visiting me tomorrow to give me a good hands-on lesson. I can't wait to learn firsthand from someone who has a lot of experience in queen rearing.
    Well you'er on your way to making some of your own. You can improv on some of your mistakes in the next round of cell production, when you feel the need. You did say you were expanding this year, didn't you Cass?
    Well get that eqpt. ready for the next bunch of Queens and you will be making progress on those ideas....
    Lee...
    Last edited by beemanlee; 04-13-2008 at 01:01 AM. Reason: Spelling. Shouls say "things" instead of tyhings.

  12. #52
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    Jun 2007
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    Boone County, West Virginia, USA
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    Default

    Mike Singleton (BEESURV) of Cold Mountain Queens stopped by yesterday. We grafted 33 more queens. He had some of those Chinese grafting tools. I really liked they way they work so I ordered 10. I can see why so many people like them now.
    I made up three supers with four compartments of two frames each. I filled those up with 12 of the capped cells. Just got through making 12 four frame deep nucs (for expanding the apiary) to hold the rest of the capped queen cells, so that takes care of my first successful graft of the season. Just in case anyone is interested, I will be selling 12 of the feral queens after they are are mated and laying. I'll have to move them so I have a place to put some of the queens we grafted yesterday. I'll be preparing more equipment this week to hold the new batch of queens. I'm going to try to get at least 25 of the supers going so I can run about 100 queens a month. It's going to take a little while for my resources to build up but I should be able to do it by the end of May or first of June.

  13. #53
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    Dec 2005
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    Default

    I guess I missed the part of your evaluation process before you start selling your queen's. I would think you would want to know yourself the quality that you are raising before you would sell anything. Setting up your nuc's for expansion, honey production, and then overwintering would be something that I would have thought a beekeeper going into queen production would want to know. How did those newly grafted queen's do. Were they superceded the first season? Did they make it through the winter?? I surely wouldn't encourage anyone to buy one of your first grafted queen's or anyone's for that matter. Not that you won't get better the more you do because it's a number's game. But I would have thought you would have included some kind of quality control in your planning process other than selling after mating and laying. Just my 2 cent's.

  14. #54
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    Default

    I have some nice overwintered nucs from this queen. I started some queens last year. I didn't graft them, they were produced by making a nuc and allowing them to rear a queen themselves. I have lost no queens from those nucs. After the queens started laying good I transferred the nucs into deeps. I started late with the nucs so I gave them each a super of honey to overwinter on. They are all still alive and doing very well right now. Does that count? Or do I have to graft them first before it counts?

  15. #55
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    Default

    Here's a post about the hive from which the queens were grafted. I posted this last October 1rst.

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213790

    There's three beekeepers who think it would be alright to raise queens from this colony, and one who wants some. I've already made one nuc from it two weeks ago and will need to make another before too much longer or I'll have to start adding honey supers.

  16. #56
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    Jun 2007
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    Boone County, West Virginia, USA
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    Default

    Since I knew last fall that I wanted to raise some queens this year, I took it upon myself to submit samples of bees from my colonies.

    Registering Your Apiary and Submitting Samples for Testing


    I used all of my overwintered colonies for making nucs last year. One of these colonies, a swarm I picked up in Carbo, VA in '06, came back positive for tracheal mites. No colonies tested positive for nosema. Less than half of the samples had varroa. Included in the samples were bees from the nucs which I started with the feral daughters. Both of these nucs came back negative for tracheal mites though they were started from a colony which tested positive. Could this indicate that the feral queens I am raising are resistant to tracheal mites? Since I don't want to breed with drones from that colony and another colony which is a little ill tempered (can't work it without gloves) I moved them into a raspberry patch before any drones hatched out and got left behind.

    http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...-18-7A_019.jpg

    I took that picture of those two colonies mentioned above a few weeks ago. If you could read the writing on the back of the colonies you would see that I wrote "tracheal mites" on one and "hot" on the other. I will be breaking those two colonies down into nucs after the raspberry bloom dries up and will give them some of the queens I am raising. After a sufficient amount of time has passed I'll send more samples of the nucs which come from the one with the tracheal mites for testing. If no tracheal mites show up in the samples it will confirm the test results which I received back from Beltsville last fall. As a small time (very small) beekeeper, I do have the luxury to submit samples and quarantine unwanted colonies to other locations in the late winter before rearing queens. I'm not bashing anyone, but I wonder how many of the big time commercial breeders test their colonies and what steps they take if they have a problem to keep the ill drones and nurse bees (don't want to stock minis with infected bees) away from the young virgin queens.

  17. #57
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandy View Post
    But I would have thought you would have included some kind of quality control in your planning process other than selling after mating and laying. Just my 2 cent's.
    I hope my last three posts helps to ease your mind.

  18. #58
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    Ft. Collins, Colorado
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    Default

    "Does that count? Or do I have to graft them first before it counts?"

    I guess that's up to you. Compare the pictures of your grafted queen cells to the "monster" swarm cells the bee's raised in your other post. How did they compare?? Appeared to me there was quite a difference which I would have expected if they were the first cells I tried to raise. Next year you will be able to compare the result's of your grafted queen's nuc's to the nuc's with queen's raised on there own. Which did better?? I would think most buyers would be interested to know whether you're using your own queen's for production or not.
    As I said earlier, my two cents. Just thought you might have wanted to try out your extra 12 queen's before you offered them for sale.

  19. #59
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    Boone County, West Virginia, USA
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    Default

    >Compare the pictures of your grafted queen cells to the "monster" swarm cells the bee's raised in your other post.

    FYI, the four cells I took out of that colony were the biggest out of about 30. The one I took a picture of was the biggest. I know you are a lady and it may be hard to understand, but bigger is not always better. Also, the "monster" cells look bigger because they don't have a 1/2" plastic JZBZ queen cup on the end and also have more than additional 1/2" of wax where I cut above the cell into the comb. That makes them appear to be bigger. It is an illusion. If you would open your eyes and quit being jealous of someone else's efforts and you'd realize that.

    >I would think most buyers would be interested to know whether you're using your own queen's for production or not.

    Yep, I'm using them. I quadrupled the number of colonies I have last year, I went from five to twenty, and only ordered two queens. I have eleven cells that I grafted that I will be placing in in some deep nucs tomorrow.

    > As I said earlier, my two cents.

    Out of the 1.25 average weekly posts that you post, it probably would be spent more wisely elsewhere.

    >Just thought you might have wanted to try out your extra 12 queen's before you offered them for sale.

    Do you mean "thought" or "assumed". I will be using some so you assumed correctly. As I said, these are "extra". If you have "extra" that typically means that you do not need them. If no one wants them I'll have to kill them. I'd rather offer them out than to kill them. Not everyone needs every queen they raise and they usually raise more so they can have some "extra". I shouldn't feel like I need to defend myself or my actions to you but I do. I feel like you have personally attacked me. I don't care to answer any questions you have, but when you "think" and "assume" and "imagine" things please keep it to yourself in the future. You don't know me or anything about me. If you did I doubt that you would be "thinking" anything other than I do the best I can for my bees.

  20. #60
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    Feb 2008
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    Hanford Ca
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    Default

    Cass Would you try shipping any extra queens? If so I would be interested in one you have done enoug studying of this offspring to know they are from great feral stock. And all daughters of hers are performing well and could be resilant certain diseases. Shoot me a pm. If you need queen cages to ship I have some I could send you just let me know.

    aNGI

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