Hello
What various races make the NWC? Are there many differences, in reguard to race makeup, in NWC from different parts of the States?
thx
What races make the NWC?
Hello
What various races make the NWC? Are there many differences, in reguard to race makeup, in NWC from different parts of the States?
thx
Banned
Carnica, or Carniolan. NWC are carniolans which have undergone and been selected through the NWC breeding program in order to preserve the best traits of the Carniolan bee. The NWC was established in 1981. All NWC are Carniolans but not all Carniolans are NWC. They have to come from the breeding program to be NWC.
"My initial thought was that with instrumental insemination – at least I could maintain a dark line of bees in an area of predominately Italian bees. I collected and backcrossing stocks from across the U.S. and Canada to establish the foundation of the breeding program, as importation was not a legal option. " - Sue Cobey
Here is a link to an interview with Susan Cobey that has some good information about the NWC breeding program.
http://www.pcela.co.yu/interview_susan_bkq.htm
So mainly NWC are a mix of various bees, Russian, Italian, Carns..., in an attempt to make a 'better bee'?
Banned
If you had read the interview with Susan Cobey from the link I provided there is no way that you would ask that question.
WVbeekeeper, I'm thinking the firing squad for this guy...your thoughts? (edited to show a tongue in a cheek here!!! )Originally Posted by WVbeekeeper
Last edited by FordGuy; 02-28-2008 at 09:03 AM.
FordGuy...love your smartass reply. Real smart guy you are?
Now back to the subject: In the link I failed to see any mention as to what the NWC were breed with...besides CARNICA. The artical mentioned the breed was made from "stock" of bees but failed to mention which "stock"...again just CARNICA?
If I missed something, during my reading, then so be it. Guess I then I should feel sorry for asking such a STUPID question?
enjoy
MrGreenthumb Tim Arheit has a website that has excellent link to Sue`s NWC breeding program. If you go to http://www.honeyrunapiaries.com/ , Then click on the left side where it says NWC Queens , another page will open, on that page is a link to "New World Carniolan Breeding Program" . This link details how the Carniolan queens are evaluated to become Breeder Queens based on various traits. There is a bit of reading to get the full understanding of the program but it is time well spent....Thanks Tim !!!! ....Rick Alexander
Turn stumbling blocks into stepping stones
Hey there green thumb! I was actually coming to your defense a little there...you know how thoughts often don't translate over the internet, specially with quirky guys like me. insert smiley here. I actually thought WV's comment was a little over the top and I was suggesting "a modest proposal" if you are familiar with that work!!!
And no, I"m not a real smart guy. I'm smart enough to know I'm not very smart! haha. I ask the questions that are poo-pooed as the most ignorant, knuckle dragging, lowbrow questions on this forum. But you know, there are also some wonderful, patient students of the bee here too. People that realize we don' t know it all. People that realize that even things we think we know...we may not know after all.
So sorry for the confusion, I meant no harm.
Last edited by FordGuy; 02-28-2008 at 08:48 AM. Reason: just cause
Short and sweet answer, here, if possible.
"NWC" are "New World Carniolan." As much as possible (some Apis mellifera liguistica and others may creep in), NWC are strictly A. m. carnica, or Carniolan.
"Russian" bees, so far as I've been able to find, are likely A. m. mellifera or A. m. carnica or some cross between the two. The Russian bees were transported to the Primorsky region on the Trans-Siberian Railroad from Ukraine, or somewhere in that region.
I don't want to hijack this thread....but is it true that NWC or Carniolan bees in general tend to swarm more? A local commercial beekeeper tried them one year and said "I can't keep them things in the hives....they swarm like crazy." I guess on a commercial level they don’t have the ability to practice a strong anti-swarming program.
Anyway....anyone have a link to a thread that talks about the strain of bees and unique swarm prevention methods for them?
Thank you in advance....
JoeMcc
"Slow Down and Taste the Vanilla" - My Grandma
Joe, I keep the NWCs and find they build up so quickly in the spring, if you are used to Italians you might be caught off guard and have them swarm on you. Maybe that is what happened.
My NWC's haven't swarmed in 2 years, all they do is make honey, four deeps. You sure he didn't have Russians
.
"I reject your reality, and substitute my own." Adam Savage
Banned
Not only did you miss it in the interview, but the very first three words of my reply was the answer to your question.
> Carnica, or Carniolan.
Then I went on to explain a little that NWC are Cariolans, but not all Carniolans are NWC because they all do not come from the breeding program.
>NWC are Carniolans which have undergone and been selected through the NWC breeding program in order to preserve the best traits of the Carniolan bee. The NWC was established in 1981. All NWC are Carniolans but not all Carniolans are NWC. They have to come from the breeding program to be NWC.
Then I provided the link to back up my statements and so you could read it and learn about exactly what has happened over the past 27 years that would turn a Carniolan into a New World Carniolan. So I am sorry about the previous post. You did not need to read the interview to have your answer, just the first three words of my reply. Sorry if the interview confused you.
I have had NWC in the past and like was mentioned they can catch you off guard in the spring. The clusters are smaller than Italians through the winter and when they take they will raise a pile of brood. I put a pollen patty on my NWC hive I now have and can't wait to see what it does this spring. I am curious as to long it will continue to try to become "established" as I steal frames of brood and bees to make nucs.
I got two virgins from Tim Tarheit last July. I put them each in a four frame nuc and took them where there were no other colonies to let the queens breed with what feral drones that were available. One of the queens disappeared when mating but the other mated successfully.
Last edited by WVbeekeeper; 02-29-2008 at 01:38 AM.
Maybe they were old world.... i just know they were Carnis. He also bought some bees from a place i wont mention in texas that he said were the worste bees hes ever had (not Carnis) and hes been around for a while.My NWC's haven't swarmed in 2 years, all they do is make honey, four deeps
I have one hive of NWC bees I an watching. It wintered in 2 deeps and the cluster is hanging down to the bottom board and halfway up the top deep. Im amazed they are still nice and heavy. Last week i took a quick check and they still have several full frames of honey. Im having to feed my italians.
Our daytime highs are about 50 and about 32 at night. Im not sure when but I think I will have to either split this hive or give them lots of supers at the first sign of the maples budding.
JoeMcc
Last edited by JoeMcc; 02-28-2008 at 10:12 AM.
"Slow Down and Taste the Vanilla" - My Grandma
mrgreenthumb - Just because you see that bees are part of a breeding program doesn't necessarily indicate that there are several distinct races or species involved.
What the NWC program is about is Selective Breeding which is a process of where a breeder develops a cultivated breed over time, and selects qualities within individuals of the breed that will be best to pass on to the next generation.
In this case, Cobey's NWC program, as she indicted, is based on Carniolan (Carnica) strain, where she is primarily concerned with improving the strain because of their strong survival skills - they adapt quickly to external conditions, such as nectar dearth, pests, cold, etc; Carniolans are very adaptable.
MM
[QUOTE=FordGuy;296197]Hey there green thumb! I was actually coming to your defense a little there...you know how thoughts often don't translate over the internet, specially with quirky guys like me. insert smiley here. I actually thought WV's comment was a little over the top and I was suggesting "a modest proposal" if you are familiar with that work!!!
And no, I"m not a real smart guy. I'm smart enough to know I'm not very smart! haha. I ask the questions that are poo-pooed as the most ignorant, knuckle dragging, lowbrow questions on this forum. But you know, there are also some wonderful, patient students of the bee here too. People that realize we don' t know it all. People that realize that even things we think we know...we may not know after all.
So sorry for the confusion, I meant no harm.
No problem, sorry for the mistake. Thanks for the defence
MrGreenThumb
NWC need to be managed differently than Italians. They can explode in the spring so the beekeeper trying to do a typical Italian mgmt style might wonder what in the world just happened.
You just have to stay ahead of them. They are wonderful bees and until last year were the only bees I was buying. I bought a Carni breeder from Glenn Apiaries and used grafts from it to mate with my NWC drones. We'll see what the end result is.....
I had 3 swarms last year (NWC) out of 50+ hives but only after a pollination job and had nothing to do with NWC. They were the first swarms I've had in 4 years.
Timing is everything. I found that my NWC sometimes were as much as 2 weeks ahead of Italian types.
Dan Williamson
B&C Honey Farm http://www.flickr.com/photos/9848229@N05/
Green Thumb,
Since Sue Cobey was not able to import true Carniolan stock from oversea's, she collected sample queens from several sources across the US. From these sources she selected queens from hives that most resembled and represented the true Carniolan traits. From these selections she started her closed breeding process. Only occasionally will she incorporate new queens into the closed system. She did not originally select by color but for queens that carried the traditional traits of the original carniolans from the Carnica Mountains.
Sue ownes the New World Carniolan name and you can only get true NWC breeders from her.
Gentle
winter hardy- They winter with smaller clusters and are more conservative with honey stores
build up rapidly in the spring--because of this they must be given room to grow or they will swarm--management is different than italians.
superb comb builders
Show natural resistance to tracheal mites.
Do not drift as easily as other races (italians)
Do not rob as quickly as other races (italians)
Frank Wyatt
Sorry for butting in. Where on earth is/are Carnica mountains?
Regards,
France
Region
Not mountains, but Carniola is a historic region of Slovenia which is in the southern Austrian Alps.
http://www.welcome-to-slovenia.com/e...-slovenia.html
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