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5K views 20 replies 15 participants last post by  Michael Bush 
#1 ·
This might be a dumb question but here it goes....

Why doesn't anyone manufacture a fully drawn comb made out of real wax? Has anyone ever attempted it? Any opinions would be appreciated.

Kris
 
#2 ·
Manufacture the stuff... why? We've got BUGS that'll do it for free!

I suspect that the production costs would be too high for a product that'd be too fragile for shipment and too bulky to store. And, realistically, the bees will build out comb themselves as a "by-product" of their consumption of carbohydrates (sugar and honey). Hence, why pay high prices for something that'd be made, essentially, for free by bugs?

DS
 
#4 ·
because....

I can give you a number of reasons why it's a great idea:
--more honey (isn't it 8lbs of honey per pound of wax produced?)
--having readily available drawn comb when you don't have any to spare but absolutely need it
--having easily obtained drawn small cell that you didn't have to regress to (time saver)...

Manufacturing, shipping and storage is what an engineer (like me) does. Those are hurdles in the design process, none of which are insurmountable I think.

They wouldn't be heavier or more expensive than the petroleum based drawn comb out there now (sorry I forget the name).

Kris
 
#6 ·
Actually I have thought about using drone foundation in deep supers to extract from. After extracting the honey you could sell the frames with the drawn drone comb for IPM. (No one sells drone sized plastic frames.) But you know what they say, "drawn comb is worth its weight in gold." So if you want something like that the best thing you can do is buy some HSC or some of those plastic frames from Mann Lake ( http://www.mannlakeltd.com/catalog/page10.html) like everyone else. (This would be cheaper than buying MY drawn comb.) OR you can play Russian roulette with drawn supers or deeps that is advertised in ABJ or BC.
 
#9 ·
The bright green frames are only foundation and not fully drawn out with plastic or wax as far as I know. There might be some for drone that is all plastic, fully drawn. They have it for normal cells I guess.

A question about manufactured fully drawn wax frames. With all the concern about even foundation being contaminated with "chemicals", I don't know if that would be a good thing. At least the walls of the cells [for a while] would be relatively "clean" wax.
 
#10 ·
They now make "ink jet" type printers that spray mold plastic parts using thermoplastic resins like polyethelylene (just a polymerized wax). They say that in a couple of years they will be cheap enough for the average home PC owner to purchase. It seems that something like this could be modified to spray mold fully drawn sheets of comb from your excess wax. That would be the most feasable way I see to accomplish this.
 
#16 ·
Assuming you could get it to work (Max Hamby says it takes a 5000 pound press just to pull the mold out of the comb and that seems unlikely that the wax would survive), you'd end up with comb with walls at least 10 times thicker than normal and, since our entire wax supply is contaminated, a comb made completely of contaminated wax.
 
#17 ·
Bees are SUPPOSED to make wax and comb. I say let them. So you make a few less bucks off the honey. For all we know, if bees are denied the making of wax, it may negatively affect the rest of their lives.
 
#18 ·
"contaminated wax" -- Michael Bush. oooh! I got ONE right!

Also, in the process of uncapping, whether by hot knife or mechanical, you might be introducing some particles or melted wax that might add some chemical contamination to the honey. For brood,...........it might work. ?

HOWEVER! I read recently in ABJ that,.."these chemicals are found in foundation as well in lower levels". I am not sure what that means, or why.

I don't think we need to "go there", but who knows what the future will bring. We have enough "work" to do, don't we? We have PLASTIC enough now I think; let the bees do something! lol. "Bees are SUPPOSED to make wax and comb. I say let them".--Hobie. I agree.
 
#19 ·
I've been using permacomb for several years and bought some honey supercell last year. I guess my answer to why no one has made fully drawn wax comb is that it would cost way more than the average beekeeper would be willing to pay. It's not something that would be made in enough volume to substantiate the development and marketing costs. The plastic drawn comb is difficult to make because of the molding process. Permacomb and Super Cell at $3-4 a frame is affordable(to me, anyway) because of the labor savings and durability of the product over many years. If I pay $.60 for a frame and another $.45 for wax foundation and it lasts a couple of years, and I still have to build the frames and install foundation and wait for the bees to draw comb and hope they do it right, the PC and SC look really good. My bees work it fine. Wax moths can't destroy it, hive beetle slime can be washed out. You couldn't do that with wax combs. So, you'd be paying a premium price for a product that has no more durability than the natural product your bees will make anyway.
 
#20 ·
Fully Drawn Comb

I saw an all aluminum comb that was hanging on the wall at Charles Naas's shop in Fillmore Ca.
I have used Dadants thick foundation because it was easy to work with. I think that it was about 7 or 9 sheets per pound.
there is an adv. in the ABJ offering drawn plastic comb.
The owner & inventer lives in Fillmore Ca.
The cost of tooling up will be very expensive.
I once saw the foundatin machine at the Apiary division of Diamond match located in Chico Ca. it was very interesting to say the least.
I changed to plastic frames and I may change to plastic supers.
It takes about 40 hours to wire and enbed wax foundation.
I have something better to do with my time!
Good Luck,
Ernie
Lucas Apiaries.
 
#21 ·
>I read recently in ABJ that,.."these chemicals are found in foundation as well in lower levels". I am not sure what that means, or why.

What it means is that the contamination levels in the wax used for foundation have reached levels that are KNOWN to have detrimental effects on the bees. It is caused by the use of chemicals in the hives to control the Varroa. Mostly fluvalinate, cumaphos and amitraz.
 
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