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  1. #1

    Default oav unit wired different

    A few years ago I bought a Heilyser JB 200 vaporizer. I wired it myself and put a switch in the positive leg. The following year I bought a second one from a US distributer that was prewired. Last week I was treating some hives......had both units attached to the same battery and switched off and while moving the whole mess the two units touched one another and popped a nice arc. When I got home I checked and found that the bought wired unit had the switch in the negative leg. I don't know if this is how they wire all of them or if they don't pay any attention or if it is a fluke. No matter. If you are running multiples and they came prewired you may want to check and make sure they are all switched the same way...otherwise you could have some trouble. I'll rewire the bought one so mine are the same...and have the + leg switched as I prefer.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  2. #2
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    Default Re: oav unit wired different

    That would give you a moment! When I started cutting my teeth on wrenches the different auto makers had different notions of which terminal should be ground. That caused some smoke and sparks. Pretty well everything now is negative for ground I believe.

    Good catch!
    Last edited by honeyman46408; 02-04-2017 at 07:25 PM.
    Frank

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    Default Re: oav unit wired different

    An open circuit is an open circuit regardless of which side is broken. It only matters if as in your case one is different than the other and they come in contact. My Russian tractor Opens on the ground side.

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    Default Re: oav unit wired different

    Yes it would be properr to have the body of the vaporizer unit to be the same polarity as the usual Neg. of the the frame of most vehicles and equipment and have the switch open the Pos side which goes to the terminal of the glow plug.

    Even if wired with the proper Neg ground of the body of the vaporiser, if the switch breaks the negative side of the circuit, the body of the vaporizer still has potential above any neg. ground item via the conductivity of the glowplug element. Not a dead short but still a conductance of 12 amps or so.

    It is correct that this polarity issue mostly only becomes important when two such bare units come in contact that have been wired with different body
    polarities.

    If this were 120 or 240 Volts the implications would be a lot more serious as the bare parts being live above "earth" would have some very discernible results.
    Frank

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    Default Re: oav unit wired different

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenbears View Post
    An open circuit is an open circuit regardless of which side is broken. It only matters if as in your case one is different than the other and they come in contact. My Russian tractor Opens on the ground side.
    It will be very important when you are driving down the road, recharging your battery for the next yard, and your vaporizer touches your truck seat frame. After the residual OA in your vaporizer fills your cab, you'll be putting that switch on the positive side, where it belongs.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: oav unit wired different

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    That would give you a moment! When I started cutting my teeth on wrenches the different auto makers had different notions of which terminal should be ground. That caused some smoke and sparks. Pretty well everything now is negative for ground I believe.

    Good catch!
    They preached that pretty hard in school that a lot of euro cars are positive ground. Electron flow theory vs current flow theory.

    I would venture that one of OP's wands came from europe, hence the "backward" wiring. Easy enough to hookup the terminal the other way next time and maybe mark the red wire with black sharpie as a reminder.

  7. #7

    Default Re: oav unit wired different

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
    I would venture that one of OP's wands came from europe, hence the "backward" wiring
    Both from Canada...but the bought wired one may have been wired in the US....or Canada.

    My thinking was that someone might drop both wands on a metal hive top, both switched off and in a few minutes go to pick them up and get a nice burn.

    Both are wired the same way now.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

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    Default Re: oav unit wired different

    Last edited by Tenbears; 02-05-2017 at 04:46 PM.

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    Default Re: oav unit wired different

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
    They preached that pretty hard in school that a lot of euro cars are positive ground. Electron flow theory vs current flow theory.

    I would venture that one of OP's wands came from europe, hence the "backward" wiring. Easy enough to hookup the terminal the other way next time and maybe mark the red wire with black sharpie as a reminder.
    Or just swap the wires, The Heilyser JB 200 vaporizer is a pretty simple unit made from an aluminum block and a glow plug. The end of the factory wires have a push clip that you attach the alligator clip leads to. As memory serves! So it is just a matter of unplugging the leads and swapping them.

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    Default Re: oav unit wired different

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenbears View Post
    BTW the positive ground Is more common in the world than is the positive ground.
    If you say so ...
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

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    Default Re: oav unit wired different

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    If you say so ...
    I think Rader is going to rake in the chips again!

    That well might have been marginally true up till about 1954. Once the transistorised charging and ignition systems came in use that changed abruptly to Neg ground. Agricultural equipment lagged by about ten years as many of them stuck with the brush commutated generator rather than the alternator. Only a very few positive ground alternators were ever produced. I have converted many tractors and equipment to alternators and 12 volts.

    I started my motor vehicle apprenticeship in 1963 and the change over was new enough to still be causing a fair bit of confusion so the discussion on all the implications was well drummed into us.

    Here is a link to some of the historical reasoning behind the different ground polarity selected to run with.

    http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/electric/et098.htm
    Frank

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    Default Re: oav unit wired different

    Frank, That may very well be true in todays equipment. As My only experience is with antique tractors. I have had them shipped in from all Over the world. and many from the US it is extremely rare for me to get one from a foreign country that is not Positive ground. Combine that with the fact that all of My Belarus tractors Which are no where near 60 years old.
    Sorry if I miss spoke. I will edit my previous Post to reflect that!
    Last edited by Tenbears; 02-05-2017 at 10:29 AM.

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    Default Re: oav unit wired different

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenbears View Post
    Frank, That may very well be true in todays equipment. As My only experience is with antique tractors. I have had them shipped in from all Over the world. and many from the US it is extremely rare for me to get one from a foreign country that is Positive ground. Combine that with the fact that all of My Belarus tractors Which are no where near 60 years old.
    Sorry if I miss spoke. I will edit my previous Post to reflect that!
    Maybe it was a slip of your tongue that switched which polarity is most used world wide. There is a time frame there that has to be considered. Before and after about 1955 approx.
    It is an oddity now to have anything designed as Pos. grnd but still can happen with users unknowingly not following protocol and bringing such items in contact with each other as Beemandan experienced.

    Just as an oddity it was common to have the polarity of the old generators get reversed by someone inadvertently flashing the fields with the wrong polarity. A real head scratcher could occur also when a battery was completley discharged and recharged in the wrong polarity. The big post was neg. and the little one Pos.! I only came upon that once personally.
    Frank

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    Default Re: oav unit wired different

    I must be reading a different Beesource than some here!?!?

    One more time - note this is the EDITED version.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenbears View Post
    BTW the positive ground was more common in the world than is the positive ground at one Time.

    Last edited by Tenbears; Today at 11:29 AM.


    ... is AC DC <> AC DC ?
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

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    Default Re: oav unit wired different

    This might be just a teency - weency bit off topic, But here is one of the most interesting lectures on GROUNDING I stumbled across recently.
    Super good speaker and very linear presentation.
    It starts out a bit slow, but bear with it.
    I think everyone that owns a pair of wire strippers should take the time to see this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpgAVE4UwFw

    I have exactly ONE hive more than than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond dispute!

  16. #16

    Default Re: oav unit wired different

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenbears View Post
    The end of the factory wires have a push clip that you attach the alligator clip leads to.
    Except....the unit I bought that was prewired with the negative switched...the entire wand has been heat shrinked...so I would have had to remove all of that....plus I was never particularly pleased with where they placed the switch. They put theirs a few inches from the wand....and I put mine a few inches from the battery clips. I liked my placement much better.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

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