Originally Posted by LSPender
Spoke with quite a few beeks thad had no problems last year & now what a mess.
Some of these people have not gone to almonds for 3 years & just stay in Texas.
Bee brokers are telling me that they have not had any growers call for bees yet but at least 5 beeks a day are calling looking for replacement hives due to all that have been placed & now they are empty of bees.
I asked as to why no grower calls & every one thought that inspections were to start looking this week & that may be the trigger.
Beekeepers may have thought they could still find replacements yet this late.
One of our neighbors is shipping another load out of Texas as I write this.
This load & the last load he sent would have never made last years grading standards.
Yet my understanding that over 50 thousand more acres are to be planted to new trees this spring with some judge controling river water due to fear of a little fish will never being able to survive.
Then tack on this bee problem.
Is a 150K of colonies short for almonds to strong a statement.
Let me rephrase that to say that I know of 150K in dead outs already.
So if one outfit is down over 30K in count, another 3 down an average of 11K each.
I know of 5 more that are down 4k to 7k each.
Does not take long to add up.
This is just in our small world, the people we talk with are not liars or BS'ers.
As one bee broker told me it's kinda like getting a DUI or finding out you wife been out fooling around.
You are the last person that want to admit what you have found out due to simply a
" pride issue "
And no it can't happen to me, I am a good beekeeper, this CCD deal only affects people who don't take care of there bees, or beekeepers who have lazy help & the owner never looks at or checks his help & bees.
I am told there are bids out there for honey over $1.25 a pound.
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Where are the reports on east coast die offs????
I will have to look for the show again that I watched. Ihave to see if my hubby still kept them on the tivo. As I taped them to watch. I swear and he swears we saw them saying that they were in south america brought in with bees from over seas. As they showed a big rig full of bees and the cape bee moving in. And the truck unloading tons of empty boxes to spread the cape bee as it drove. I will have to try to find this special again and re watch and try to contact the company that did it.
It just sounds all to familure me for someone not to question not having Cape Bees here in the USA. It wouldnt take much with all of the bees comming and going for it to get in here. Thats all I am saying. What they do and the sound of things sounds all to familure.
How do you know methol bromide won't be absorbed by the wax and kill the bees when you put them in? Have beekeepers done this before? I don't know anything about this chemical, just asking.
methol bromide was once used for fumigating equipment to protect againist moths. it is my understanding that it was taken off the market due to health concerns (I think??? residue quickly showed up in the equipment). I would suspect that the product can still be used in emergency situtation (I think DDT and any number of real nasties can be used in the exact same manner).
I am an outsider to this whole business, but I have a question that is nagging at me.
How can there be a shortage of bees, and there are bees for rent in the paper out in Calif.? This does not make sense to me.
Is it that the farmers are saying there is a shortage, because they can't get bees for the price they want to pay? Or is it that those advertising in the paper are asking too much for the bees?
If the farmers are unwilling to pay, that is not a shortage, but an economic issue.
If the beeks are asking too much, again it is an economic issue.
To me there is really only a shortage if bees cannot be had at any price.
CCD is not a new problem. It has been around before mites, before feedlot beekeeping and before migratory beekeeping was common. It has devastated commercial beekeepers on a widespread scale in the past. And although the size of commercial outfits are 10 times the size they were back then, a 90+% loss was as economically devastating then as now. I know because I lost 400 hives/week the same way over 30 years ago.
And the reason no one knew of a real beekeeper that had it, was anyone who had it and shared the fact was labelded as a PPM and automatically marginalized. Those that had experienced it, saw the same mystifying symptoms as those who have witnessed CCD today. And it didn't take a 'real' beekeeper to know that something very unusual was happening. Only a few researchers took the reports seriously. And, I think they were marginalized as well. Not much money in back then.
what happened after your losses back then? did it spread to other beeks? did it just go away or did it give you problems for several years?
The beekeepers advertising in the newpaper are tying to work directly with the almond producer and eliminated the broker.
Some beekeepers never have a contract. They fill in the gaps and usually at a high price.
Not neccessarily all the advertisers are oportunistic.
Where are the reports on east coast die offs????
I do not know at this time know of a source for the east coast die offs.
But, I did provide more information than what was here earlier and that was the purpose of posting.
Methyl bromide is a fumigant, the reason it has been so controlled is because of the ozone layer destruction. It will not "protect" against anything, as it has no residual action. It will not build up in wood, it was/had been used for decades for residential fumigation, now Vikane or other gasses are used. It will kill almost anything, dry rot,termites,grain pests, soil borne nematodes, bacteirum and a plethora of other goodies.
The only industry I know who still use it is the strawberry growers, for soil sterilization a week or so before planting. And yes, I have used it in the past on my boxes, frames and equipment with no problems. I hope this works for LSPender, what the heck, at least it will be a good starting/baseline point. I'll keep my digits crossed.
CCD affected hives
I am researching AFB, EFB and Stonebrood (Aspergillus) and would like to have portions of CCD affected hives for further lab evaluations.
If any of you have hives that are not going to be reused - I would like to have small pieces (1 to 6 inches), labeled with your info and region, bee species and most common crop (if applicable).
You can send a PM and I can contact you to discuss this more.
Unfortunately, I can't pay for postage, but I don't need large pieces.
Any assistance is greatly appreciated.
If the problem is so serious, then why hasn't there been a moratorium on hive transport? I would think that the transport of hives could desseminate infectious diseases.
Whats the number one, most important factor in the bee industry? Its not honey production, its not backyard beekeepers, etc. Its the pollination of the countries food crops. Nothing will come between the movement of hives and the pollination of crops. You stop the movement of bees, and you might as well just kill off ALL the hives. Because without the movement of bees, the industry is nothing. Backyard types, and those with little self contained apiaries, I'm sure don't like to hear that.
Originally Posted by Aspera
You don't shoot off your foot because you big toe is hurting.
There is no way, regardless of how bad it gets, to keep enough bees within the immediate vicinity of the major food crops that need pollination.
Who do you think is going to make the first demands for stopping the movement of bees?
>>then why hasn't there been a moratorium on hive transport?
I assume that's a rhetorical question
What Dave sez. Follow the money.
Originally Posted by Aspera
Thinking out loud....
I'm not at all convinced that my food supply depends as much on commerical pollinators as folks would like us to believe. I look at the crops that are pollinated by honeybees, and think "I could live without that since I don't eat it anyway." In fact, if I never ate another almond in my life I doubt I'd die, yet that particular part of the industry seems to pretty much dictate by itself the management practices for most of the beekeeping in the US.
If we took the 800-lb gorilla that is almond pollination out of the equation, what would be the state of beekeeping today?
> If we took the 800-lb gorilla that is almond pollination out of the
> equation, what would be the state of beekeeping today?
There are lots of crops that will still need pollination, and lots of
migratory hives required.
There was a time, not long ago when almonds were not such a big
deal in the grand scheme of things, and other crops dominated.
But as I said before, Almonds have done to beekeeping what cocaine
did to Miami.
Built it into one of the greatest cities on the east coast? If it wasnt for almonds there would be alot of beekeepers out of buisness right now.
Originally Posted by Jim Fischer
Well CCD is supposed to be the influenza of honeybees, causing untold suffering to their keepers. If it truly is an infectious problem, then it crosses state lines on the back of a semi, as did varroa, tracheal mites, and SHB before CCD.
Barry, you're a brave man. I like that about you.
Originally Posted by Barry Digman