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major ccd loss

28K views 87 replies 37 participants last post by  Trevor Mansell 
#1 · (Edited)
#3 ·
obervation

The losses are not easy to take, I've been thru this myself, this year and past years.
I only say the following as my opinion and obsevation.

Even if we are lossing hives we still need to deliver a quality product, as advertised, to the grower. If the contact is for 6 frames that what should be delivered.

Unfortunatally some of those hive that were empty and should have stayed at the holding yard were delivered to pollination contacts, I do encourage the growers to check the hives to confirm what they are paying for.

I looked at 4 sets of 24 hives each and you would be pushing a 2 frame ave. with multiple hives having no queen or a fist full of bees from the unnamed large beek in the lost hills region.

I hope together we find a method to win against what ever is killing the bees.

Larry
 
#4 ·
Maryam, the woman who wrote the piece, was in Arizona for the organic meeting this past weekend. She was interviewing people for her documentary about the vanishing bees. She needs money to finish the project, in case anyone wants to help out.
 
#6 ·
BarryW,
Kim stated that two major queen producers retired, do you or anyone else know who they are.
I am small compared to some of these keepers, but none the less I have invested what I consider major money in this business; and I am concerned. I suspect everyone on this list is as they should bee.
Frank
 
#7 ·
Did they retire and just burn the equipment? What does "retire" mean. It means nothing if they retired but yet passed on or sold the business. Didn't a major company in Hawaii sell out and the owners retired? (OHB bought them) But that could hardly fit into the "loss of 75,000 queens that will now NOT be produced". So the article (from MichaelW) suggests that two queen producers retired and their entire operation now is no longer in existence. Not sold, not passed onto anyone....just gone from the face of the earth. I'd be interested in knowing the details of why they retired in the manner the story suggests.
 
#8 ·
I had a hard time reading the article. Not just because it describes a saddening situation, but because it isn't very well written. I know that Kim wrote the article after his rather traumatic experience, so perhaps that is why he wrote it with a jumble of sporadic thoughts.

I respect Flottum's experience and expertise in beekeeping, however, as an editor of Bee Culture I would think that the articles which he writes should have some semblance of order. I can't stand trying to read about something as important as CCD, and having to reread it in order to make sense of the story. Perhaps Flottum should take some journalism classes.

Examples abound: The lead is a run-on sentence. I think that the editor forgot to place a period in the middle of the lead. Holocaust - did they burn the bees? Mass exodus - ambiguous - an exodus is a mass departure.
"There was no food for the bees, nothing to forage" - Repeat - if there was no food, I guess logically there would be no forage.

“Beekeepers are not activists, they’re just going to quietly slip away,”. What a judgmental statement. Apparently the beekeeper that was quoted hasn't logged onto BeeSource to see that we aren't going to slip away without a fight.

True, perhaps we're not activists, but we're advocates. Activists protest, advocates accomplish.

MM
 
#9 ·
Maryam Henein wrote the article, not Kim Flottum. But I tend to agree. I thought, too, that it was poorly written. It certainly didn't seem to fit a logical pattern of organization. And the details were largely lacking. I was left with the impression that the unnamed beekeeper lost 40,000 hives, but I wonder if that's true?

As far as the beekeeper's statement about not being activists, I think he's probably right. He said it, it was quoted and "attributed" to, well, an anonymous beekeeper, but it is a direct quotation. Likely others have similar thoughts. Whether or not you agree is a matter of opinion.

But I haven't seen much in the way of "activism" or "advocating" when it comes to CCD. So far as I know, beekeepers are reluctant to admit losses (as demonstrated by the removal of names from the story), federal funding for research is negligible, and beekeepers have not put up money to fund continuing research on CCD.
 
#10 ·
Interesting the 1st. article written by someone I assume is not a beekeeper and the one item that comes out clear in the story relates to nutritional stress.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Bjorns point of where the equipment ends up and what retirement means is one we need to keep in mind.

Who will fill this void and Who's next?

How terrible this must be for the owner, all the employees, not to mention the owner of the crop that did not get pollinated.
 
#11 ·
beekeepers are reluctant to admit losses

I expect this is because of several reasons...

1) if they sell bees (hives, nucs, queens etc) they may be afraid of lost business obviously.

2) they may be worried that their ability to pollinate will be questioned. They'd rather try to make up the losses and not have the farmer know anything may be amiss.

3) They don't want anyone testing/analyzing their treatment methods for fear they will be found to be using illegal or not

Not that this hasn't already been discussed but... I can understand beekeepers not wanting their names published.
 
#12 ·
You're correct, Kieck. I noticed Flottum's name in the banner at the top of the page, missed the byline by Henein, and attributed the article to Flottum. My apologies to Kim. But, as an editor, he should ask for a complete rewrite.;)

I think that the events surrounding CCD are so new, and so mysterious that beekeepers have gotten into the push-pull strategy of tug-of-war with the situation. There has to be some sort of accountability, and understandably, "names have been changed to protect the innocent". Sort of like the analogy where cockroaches have ravaged an apartment building, exterminators are called in to spray apartment after apartment, but the critters keep coming back. Well, there is one holdout renter who doesn't call the exterminator, because she has a "clean" apartment, and might be embarrassed to admit that they are taking up residence in her place.

Maybe we'd get further in the fight if beekeepers assessed and reported their specific hive management practices. Then we might find one or more common denominators.

MM
 
#13 ·
"Bjorns point of where the equipment ends up and what retirement means is one we need to keep in mind.

Who will fill this void and Who's next?"

I would guess that it depends on whether there is anything other than empty equipment left to sell. A queen and package business with no bees to sell would be a hard sell for a prospective seller:(.
 
#14 ·
beekeepers are reluctant to admit losses

I expect this is because of several reasons... -Dan Williamson
Sure, and that makes sense to me. But that doesn't mesh with "activism" or "advocating change" to my way of thinking. It does seem to fit the "slip-quietly-away" model, in my opinion.

I can certainly understand beekeepers not wanting their names associated specifically with CCD. But sooner or later we (beekeepers) will have to fish or cut bait. Either we step forward and try to reach some conclusions about the problem, or we continue to deny that "I" have a problem (but "you" might) and wind up fading away.
 
#16 ·
#21 · (Edited)
Here are links to a google cached version of the article that does not have the names redacted if anyone is interested (don't know how long it will be available)
(The Snorbert thing piqued my interest...
http://www.langston.com/Fun_People/1994/1994AXG.html)



I thought the article was ok. The author was over in Oracle last weekend interviewing beekeepers. She's working on a documentary, and although not an experienced beek, she seemed to have garnered as much knowledge as many of the beeks who actually had bees. She's sincere about the issue, and although she has a clear agenda that's oriented towards a wholistic view of things I thought she displayed a decent understanding of CCD.
 
#26 ·
#18 ·
I returned a phone call monday to one of last years large CCD victims, who was riding thru that staging area and taking pictures ,while on the phone.
You could sense the sickness in his voice from seeing thousands of empty hives setting there,which he said was mind blowing.
I'm told that the "beekeeper" with the loses is bidding high for any extra bees available to try and fill contracts.
 
#19 ·
Ah the wonders of technology and the cache. Looks like Kim edited more than just names. I say he did about as good as you can with the original piece without completely rewriting it. An editor shouldn't rewrite. He could have not posted the piece, but its still important information thats not going to get out otherwise. Until the USDA puts out the promised money into this problem, all we'll have is random investigations whenever someone can squeeze some funds, have a convenient opportunity, or be looking for some other opportunity out of the situation like making a movie about it. To quote Jim Fisher's article last spring,
“The skilled experts who support
beekeeping have been victims of
a ‘Disappearing Disease’ of their
own. The cause of this disease
is clear – no one gave a ****
about bees.”

If the USDA follows through, I see bee science never getting back to
the shape it is. With money you can bring in more money, but its
critical to give the needed boost.
 
#20 ·
I think I am SICK!!!!!

I have been on the phone for over the last 2 hours.
I had no idea that this CCD deal is worse this year than last year.
When it is all said & done there will be at least 150K hives short in the almonds.
Every one has the same story.
Looked good up north, loaded them on the truck & now they ar almost all dead in CA.
This is from beeks from all across the country.
Just talked with one of my queen people.
He is down in Mexico putting on patties.
50% winter loss in the last 4 weeks.
This is just nuts.
Won't be a good nites sleep tonite.
And yes the story abot the " Big Guy " losses are true!
 
#24 ·
I have been on the phone for over the last 2 hours.
I had no idea that this CCD deal is worse this year than last year.
When it is all said & done there will be at least 150K hives short in the almonds.
Every one has the same story.
Looked good up north, loaded them on the truck & now they ar almost all dead in CA.
This is from beeks from all across the country.
Just talked with one of my queen people.
He is down in Mexico putting on patties.
50% winter loss in the last 4 weeks.
This is just nuts.
Won't be a good nites sleep tonite.
And yes the story abot the " Big Guy " losses are true!

Any idea on casualties? The article cited states that Brett Adee sent 36,400 out to the almonds, but the journalist(?) never gave us a count. What have you been able to determine? We were at this guessing game last spring too.

MM
 
#23 ·
peggjam writes:
I would guess that it depends on whether there is anything other than empty equipment left to sell. A queen and package business with no bees to sell would be a hard sell for a prospective seller

tecumseh sober adds:
odd how any number of member seem concerned about the empty unused equipment but seem totally unaware of the expertise and knowledge lost when these old hands retire.

which will go extinct first... the honeybee or the beekeeper?
 
#25 ·
I think this could be pretty important but I think we need to first ask if this has been confirmed as CCD?

If or when it has been confirmed will we see these hives or equipment available for in depth inspection by the CCD team?

Last year was the fluke, if this year is as big as the story and as big as Soup can is saying there will be certainly be a paradigm shift in our industry this year.

I don't think we should be chalking losses up to CCD until we get confirmation. The panic the press will make from this either way will like significantly impact all of us soon. The impact on an already stressed agricultural system could be catastrophic.

Has anyone considered the possibility this might not be a natural happenstance but some form of agricultural terrorism? Sounds pretty far fetched I know but we as an industry better confirm what is and not be excluding any possibility. As much as last year this seemed like the emporers new clothes if this is confirmed we all better hang onto our hats, Not since the AFB kill has anything like been seen in our industry.

As a thought in the back of my mind most things come down to some type of money trail. Is there one here?
 
#33 ·
As a thought in the back of my mind most things come down to some type of money trail. Is there one here?
Absolutely. Chemical companies, land grant colleges, tenure track researchers, private/public "partnering" agreements, pollinators, etc. Each and every one has a vested interest in CCD, and oddly enough, they aren't all the same.
 
#27 ·
Such big losses are scary. I thought the small hives (<6 frames) didn't do much good as pollinators? I have about 200 4-5 framers that are not committed, and my broker doesn't seem interested. Should I really be looking to see if somebody wants to rent them for almonds?

Up in Wasco/Delano area yesterday; just starting to see some early bloom.
 
#29 ·
Here is more of what I found out!!!!l

Called our good friend Jim Paysen of JZBS plastics.
Our family has known Jim for over 25+ years.
The bottom line isfrom Jim is there is a hell of a mess in the almonds & in the beekeeeping business in general.
Jim is in his 80's & very very sharp for his age.
Jim knows darn near evryone in this bee business.
Yes the big guy has a huge loss as reported.
He has never seen the good beeks as he knows ( and so have we ) whith this huge problem.
I have been told of a good number of outfits that have just put stuff in storage untill some one can tell them what is killing the bees.
This deal is far ranging to say the least.
So stop & think about this deal, let us take 20 or so of the big guys out of the mix & see what wood ware & other beekeeking items would go to for price.
We the smaller people depend on the big guys to keep the saw mills running for us to get a really good price on wood & what ever else you can think of in this business.
Honey prices are moving up at a alarming rate due to the lack of honey in this global market & the poor quality of bees in America.
Every one needs to get the news meda involved in this deal ASAP.
There is no way in the world the the number losses we are told of that can be replaced in the next few months.
As one researcher told me the other day is that " Rich the only thing we at this point that I can find in connecton with this problem is the air the bees & humans breath & human contact with the hives".
I would ask that we all get a call in to the people at the national level & the press.
This if just the 1st phase.
We 1st fought the t/mites then the v/mites & next came the SHB.
All the above we can see.
This deal we seem to have no eyes to help us.
 
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